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Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

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Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#61

Post by rglover »

jayd16 wrote: post #21
mike_d wrote: post #20

2,153 billionaires have more wealth than the 4.6 billion people who make up 60 percent of the planet’s population [1]. Calling 10,000 unaffiliated people "a small group" by comparison is kind of disingenuous. 1. https://oxfamilibrary.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10...

This is just desperate whataboutism. The inequality of life is certainly brutal but it doesn't make Bitcoin a populous utopia either. Besides that the numbers aren't equivalent. Holding stake and controlling its exchange are not the same thing, at least not for Bitcoin or democratic state controlled currencies.

A decentralized money that government can't touch is the definition of a populous utopia in money terms. Bitcoin, by nature, is the most democratic form of money to ever exist on the planet. That more people don't get behind it and buy at least a little bit is mind boggling. Government fiat is and always will be a source of controlling the population and limiting their ability to build wealth.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#62

Post by jayd16 »

mike_d wrote: post #27
jayd16 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just desperate whataboutism. The inequality of life is certainly brutal but it doesn't make Bitcoin a populous utopia either. Besides that the numbers aren't equivalent. Holding stake and controlling its exchange are not the same thing, at least not for Bitcoin or democratic state controlled currencies.

Calling out poor editorialization of the original papers findings isn't whataboutism, but thanks for playing.

Just denying something and tacking on but thanks for playing isn't a rebuttal.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#63

Post by lkrubner »

sunshinerag wrote: post #47
matteotom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corrupt governments and central banks can be pushed to change the rules with methods like "voting" or "mass protests".

Except corrupt governments and central banks do not care for either. Central bank policies are not subject to voting by people. Did any of us vote for bailouts, QE?. corrupt governments also know how to suppress "mass protests". If these are the only ways to hold them to account how would that work.

Most of us did vote for quantitative easing. Certainly after 2008, for many years, in the USA and in Europe, people were voting any kind of stimulus they could get, and when it was impossible to get enough fiscal stimulus, most of us were willing to support any effort for monetary stimulus as a second-best alternative. It is, of course, an interesting point of discussion why it was so difficult to get sufficient fiscal stimulus, but that topic is too complex to get into in a comment on Hacker News.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#64

Post by rglover »

neaanopri wrote: post #41
ceilingcorner wrote: post #39

> the top 10,000 individual Bitcoin investors control roughly one third of the cryptocurrency in circulation. The relevant comparison here is to other currencies, not to organizations in general, and to the ability and incentive of these controllers to influence the trajectory of the currency. Two points: 1. 10,000 people controlling 33% is dramatically less control and centralization than the Federal Reserve, which…

The federal reserve exists at the pleasure of Congress, and Congress can abolish the fed if it chooses to.

You have a lot to learn.

https://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserv...

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#65

Post by [deleted] »

wmf wrote: post #49
jayd16 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way do users have control over miners or developers? If the assumption is that corruption can overcome a democratic state, I never understood why its so crazy to suggest it can overcome developers or a mining cartel.

Users have the money. If there's a fork, users can value one side higher than the other and then developers and miners will follow the money.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#66

Post by PEJOE »

wmf wrote: post #49
jayd16 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way do users have control over miners or developers? If the assumption is that corruption can overcome a democratic state, I never understood why its so crazy to suggest it can overcome developers or a mining cartel.

Users have the money. If there's a fork, users can value one side higher than the other and then developers and miners will follow the money.

I thought Bitcoin was the money?

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#68

Post by NickNaraghi »

graeme wrote: post #52
ur-whale wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming miners are sellers. They could very well be HODLErs buying at a huge discount.

> You're assuming miners are sellers. Actually, I’m not. If a Bitcoin is worth $60,000, then in an efficient market miners will spend just under $60,000 to get it. Will some choose to keep the Bitcoin? Certainly. But, they still have to pay the bills. To do so they have a few options: * Raise money from private investors or on the public markets. RIOT and MARA have done this. They pay their bills by selling shares. *…

It's actually way below efficient: a Bitcoin only costs $7-11k to mine at scale. [0]

https://minerdaily.com/2021/how-much-does-it-cost-to-mine-a-...

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#69

Post by mechanical_bear »

jayd16 wrote: post #21
mike_d wrote: post #20

2,153 billionaires have more wealth than the 4.6 billion people who make up 60 percent of the planet’s population [1]. Calling 10,000 unaffiliated people "a small group" by comparison is kind of disingenuous. 1. https://oxfamilibrary.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10...

This is just desperate whataboutism. The inequality of life is certainly brutal but it doesn't make Bitcoin a populous utopia either. Besides that the numbers aren't equivalent. Holding stake and controlling its exchange are not the same thing, at least not for Bitcoin or democratic state controlled currencies.

> This is just desperate whataboutism

Wat

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#70

Post by jayd16 »

rglover wrote: post #61
jayd16 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just desperate whataboutism. The inequality of life is certainly brutal but it doesn't make Bitcoin a populous utopia either. Besides that the numbers aren't equivalent. Holding stake and controlling its exchange are not the same thing, at least not for Bitcoin or democratic state controlled currencies.

A decentralized money that government can't touch is the definition of a populous utopia in money terms. Bitcoin, by nature, is the most democratic form of money to ever exist on the planet. That more people don't get behind it and buy at least a little bit is mind boggling. Government fiat is and always will be a source of controlling the population and limiting their ability to build wealth.

I have at least some control (though small) over the politics that control my nation's fiat currency. I feel I have much less control over 51% of the mining community. Considering that, why should I feel its more democratic?
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