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Where have all the insects gone?

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Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#201

Post by silicon2401 »

foxhop wrote: post #176

We used technology to make the earth sick. The insects are fleeing to safe havens in places like my small backyard. Seriously all I did was stopped mowing, and instead use simple nudges to guide the manifestation of a natural system! So much abundance here, with some practice we all can make habitats for humans and animals (including attracting animals and humans by growing tasty food). We will rebuild stronger toget…

I used to want a backyard wildlife refuge until I realized this also means having a backyard refuge for ticks. I'd love to know if there's a way around this

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#202

Post by lotsofpulp »

amriksohata wrote: post #200

Albert Howard an English botanist observed Hindu / Indian farmers using Cow pat to fertilise their land. He dubbed this the Indore process, there was no need for toxic pesticides or fertilisers. All this modern science that at the time that was supposed to improve farming actually destroyed our biodiversity and insects.

> All this modern science that at the time that was supposed to improve farming actually destroyed our biodiversity and insects.

What is the distinction between “modern science” and “science”? Are you claiming that the development of the Haber-Bosch process and other fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, and fungicides did not increase yields?

What is “improve farming”? It does not seem to be a small feat to go from feeding 1.5B people to 8B people in 100 years, at far more calories per person.

Granted, the long term effects very well may have destroyed biodiversity and insects, but the immediate problem at the time was hunger and malnutrition. Although, one can make the case that the loss in biodiversity and insects is inevitable with excess human population, in which case the development of technologies increasing yield would be responsible for leading to the possibility of excess humans existing.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#203

Post by orev »

rib3ye wrote: post #32

I feel like if this were true we would be seeing a major decline in the sales of pesticides, at least on consumer-level volume. Has anyone dug into those numbers?

A lot of pesticide use on the consumer side comes from pest control companies where people have a recurring service that preemptively sprays the entire yard and house. The customer just sees that they don’t have bugs, and assumes it’s because the service is working.

For there to be a decline in sales, consumers would need to be purchasing products only in response to an infestation, but with such a service, they aren’t doing that. And the pest control company has no incentive to tell people “by the way, you can cancel the service now because everything is extinct”.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#204

Post by WalterBright »

foxhop wrote: post #176

We used technology to make the earth sick. The insects are fleeing to safe havens in places like my small backyard. Seriously all I did was stopped mowing, and instead use simple nudges to guide the manifestation of a natural system! So much abundance here, with some practice we all can make habitats for humans and animals (including attracting animals and humans by growing tasty food). We will rebuild stronger toget…

I don't use any fertilizer or *cides on my lawn. I do mow it once every month or so. When I walk down the driveway in the summer, there's a constant hum of insects.

The only pesticide is a line of diatomaceous earth around the house to keep the ants from setting up shop inside.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#205

Post by agalunar »

Jensson wrote: post #147
farias0 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with US politicians is that they are sold out to the private sector. This is a problem that would obviously not exist if there was no private sector, or if it was weaker, which is the "what if" of the discussion. Sure, then we could elect politicians that are bad in different ways, but then this becomes a discussion against socialism, which is not what I'm intending here. I'm only talking about socialism…

> The problem with US politicians is that they are sold out to the private sector. This is a problem that would obviously not exist if there was no private sector You are diagnosing the symptom and not the cause. Politicians selling their power to the highest bidder is a symptom of politicians being corrupt and using their power to enrich themselves. Removing the private sector would give these corrupt cronies a lot…

Modern capitalism is an exhibition of capital's dependency on the state. Without the state, who would enforce a corporation's claims to property? (the products of worker labor, intellectual property, and so on)

And empirically, the bottom 70% of the US population on the wealth scale has absolutely zero influence on public policy. The policies of the US overwhelmingly align with the interests of US corporations. I'd contend they'd be much less dominating otherwise.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#206

Post by WalterBright »

silicon2401 wrote: post #201
foxhop wrote: post #176

We used technology to make the earth sick. The insects are fleeing to safe havens in places like my small backyard. Seriously all I did was stopped mowing, and instead use simple nudges to guide the manifestation of a natural system! So much abundance here, with some practice we all can make habitats for humans and animals (including attracting animals and humans by growing tasty food). We will rebuild stronger toget…

I used to want a backyard wildlife refuge until I realized this also means having a backyard refuge for ticks. I'd love to know if there's a way around this

Keep the deer out?

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#207

Post by mint2 »

subsubzero wrote: post #68

Maybe the author doesn't see insects as they are in a heavily populated city with exterminators everywhere. Down in Southern California I have seen more bees this past year than I have ever seen. A few things I do feel like I see alot less than I used to see is dragonflies and praying mantis. I remember as a kid I used to see so many of both, now I may see one or two a month(dragonflies), and praying mantis once or t…

Do you mean honey bees because those would be more like looking to cows or sheep population as a metric of general wild animal population.

My area of SoCal is HOA/office park “landscaped” with near zero variety of plants for miles around. There are very few flying insects in my yard. I did attract some caterpillars this year, but they are very particular about plants. The caterpillar on the native gooseberry stays there, the tomatoes get hornworms and the other plant gets budworms. Bugs can be very specific and the grass and office park shrub monoculture around is not supportive of a diverse insect population.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#208

Post by WalterBright »

orev wrote: post #203
rib3ye wrote: post #32

I feel like if this were true we would be seeing a major decline in the sales of pesticides, at least on consumer-level volume. Has anyone dug into those numbers?

A lot of pesticide use on the consumer side comes from pest control companies where people have a recurring service that preemptively sprays the entire yard and house. The customer just sees that they don’t have bugs, and assumes it’s because the service is working. For there to be a decline in sales, consumers would need to be purchasing products only in response to an infestation, but with such a service, they aren…

I used to use a lawn service, and told them no pesticides or herbicides.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#209

Post by imoverclocked »

silicon2401 wrote: post #201
foxhop wrote: post #176

We used technology to make the earth sick. The insects are fleeing to safe havens in places like my small backyard. Seriously all I did was stopped mowing, and instead use simple nudges to guide the manifestation of a natural system! So much abundance here, with some practice we all can make habitats for humans and animals (including attracting animals and humans by growing tasty food). We will rebuild stronger toget…

I used to want a backyard wildlife refuge until I realized this also means having a backyard refuge for ticks. I'd love to know if there's a way around this

There are a lot of things that eat ticks. eg: Chickens will turn ticks into eggs.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#210

Post by cobookman »

tw04 wrote: post #14
daenz wrote: post #7

Sometimes I get the sense that people hate that we exist, in the numbers that we do, because of our impact on the earth by merely existing. A self-hatred if you will. And before you respond with "if only we did X, it would be fine," consider that the difficulty of convincing/coercing lots of people to do things is also an inherent part of our existence. Also part of our existence is the incentive to cheat to get ahea…

>We can't live like native Americans with iPhones. We probably could in the next 100 years through automation, massive reduction in population, and making things to last instead of making things to be replaced. Building a society whose values aren't based around never-ending growth. We won't, but we could.

population growth is starting to recede. Most 1st world countries are growing through immigration, with a birth rate that is too low to support our population.

We are trending towards having a smaller population in 100 years.

EU Birth rate over time: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1251516/crude-birth-rate...

US Birth rate is 1.7 kids per female.

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