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Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

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Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#21

Post by sayhar »

agd wrote: post #4

My understanding, from speaking with someone at Facebook who has worked in this area, is that they are primarily empowered to do individual fixes. I.e. they do root cause analysis on why content X was correctly/incorrectly handled, update processes, and repeat. The problem instead seems to be a systemic one. i.e. What kinds of posts does the platform incentivise and promote as a whole? However, changing the system wo…

> The problem instead seems to be a systemic one. i.e. What kinds of posts does the platform incentivise and promote as a whole?

These are the big questions we want to be tackling.

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#22

Post by zht »

samlevine wrote: post #17

Facebook should focus on giving tools to individuals and communities to communicate with each other and speak freely with one another. Communities and individuals should determine their rules, not Facebook. Platform wide content moderation is inevitable (illegal content exists), but mass censorship is bad. It will come for you, if it hasn't already.

you mean like how r/physical_removal, r/jailbait, r/creepshots, etc etc were allowed to proliferate on reddit

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#23

Post by strulovich »

commoner wrote: post #13

A reminder that Facebook's VP of integrity (Guy Rosen)[1] co-founded the spyware company, Onavo, that Facebook acquired. Onavo made a VPN that collected user activity and delivered it to Facebook.[2] [1] First temporary ( https://gizmodo.com/facebook-exec-gets-new-title-as-vp-of-in... ), then long-term ( https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/17/22731214/facebook-disput... ) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo

I see this mentioned on multiple threads.

What is the accusation here?

(FB employee, opinions are my own)

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#24

Post by tedivm »

strulovich wrote: post #23
commoner wrote: post #13

A reminder that Facebook's VP of integrity (Guy Rosen)[1] co-founded the spyware company, Onavo, that Facebook acquired. Onavo made a VPN that collected user activity and delivered it to Facebook.[2] [1] First temporary ( https://gizmodo.com/facebook-exec-gets-new-title-as-vp-of-in... ), then long-term ( https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/17/22731214/facebook-disput... ) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo

I see this mentioned on multiple threads. What is the accusation here? (FB employee, opinions are my own)

The person created spyware for profit- something that clearly lacks of integrity.

The fact that this is even a question shows why no one who worked at Facebook should be in charge of any integrity project.

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#26

Post by frob »

strulovich wrote: post #23
commoner wrote: post #13

A reminder that Facebook's VP of integrity (Guy Rosen)[1] co-founded the spyware company, Onavo, that Facebook acquired. Onavo made a VPN that collected user activity and delivered it to Facebook.[2] [1] First temporary ( https://gizmodo.com/facebook-exec-gets-new-title-as-vp-of-in... ), then long-term ( https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/17/22731214/facebook-disput... ) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo

I see this mentioned on multiple threads. What is the accusation here? (FB employee, opinions are my own)

FB branded Onavo as a free VPN to protect your privacy. Instead, it routed all of your traffic through FB-owned machines so that they could profile your connections and get an idea of how much you were using other apps.

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#27

Post by guscost »

debacle wrote: post #6

> Allen left Facebook soon after that for a data scientist job at the Democratic National Committee. So the guy on the election integrity team then takes a job with the DNC. This is called a revolving door. And now, curiously, he is part of the effort to push for more censorship of Facebook. This concerted effort to cow Facebook into censoring their platform more is coming from the RNC, DNC, Congress, and the mainstr…

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” - C. S. Lewis

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#28

Post by strulovich »

tedivm wrote: post #24
strulovich wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this mentioned on multiple threads. What is the accusation here? (FB employee, opinions are my own)

The person created spyware for profit- something that clearly lacks of integrity. The fact that this is even a question shows why no one who worked at Facebook should be in charge of any integrity project.

So it’s a linguistic issue. You’re lumping integrity as “do people abuse our system” with “does person A follow the same morals as me”.

Specifically, looks like your morals are that products that are free in exchange for anonymously analyzing your data are immoral. (Remember: Onavo gave free VPN to users)

It’s a reasonable position to take, but it’s unclear it’s necessarily true and that everyone who doesn’t agree with you has no integrity, more so, it definitely doesn’t imply they can’t achieve results.

There’s plenty of criticism to give on Facebook’s integrity efforts. I just don’t think yours is helping the discussion.

And as an example, I think the linked article is a great idea and hope the founders succeed.

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#29

Post by barbazoo »

AlbertCory wrote: post #15

Long before the Internet, you could go through an airport and be unable to avoid the Moonies & the followers of Lyndon LaRouche. You could find the book "None Dare Call It Treason" and lots of people did. "The Daily Worker" (newspaper of the US Communist Party) was readily available. Any of those groups could take out ads in the newspaper, or hold demonstrations (like the Nazi Party in Skokie, IL). There were UHF sta…

I might obviously be wrong but I do think it's different. People didn't spend a good chunk of their day at newspaper stands waiting for new content. No one got "The Daily Worker" recommended to them because of their person (age/sex/income/location/communication/...). I feel like that fact often gets ignored. The problem isn't that "problematic" content exists but that FB is actively shoving it down people's throats in a sinisterly targeted way to increase their bottom line through increased engagement.

Re: Former Facebook staffers launch Integrity Institute

#30

Post by 0x4d464d48 »

strulovich wrote: post #28
tedivm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person created spyware for profit- something that clearly lacks of integrity. The fact that this is even a question shows why no one who worked at Facebook should be in charge of any integrity project.

So it’s a linguistic issue. You’re lumping integrity as “do people abuse our system” with “does person A follow the same morals as me”. Specifically, looks like your morals are that products that are free in exchange for anonymously analyzing your data are immoral. (Remember: Onavo gave free VPN to users) It’s a reasonable position to take, but it’s unclear it’s necessarily true and that everyone who doesn’t agree wi…

"So it’s a linguistic issue."

Only in the same way that you can dismiss misaligned values as a 'linguistic issue'.

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