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Where have all the insects gone?

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Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#21

Post by kesselvon »

daenz wrote: post #7

Sometimes I get the sense that people hate that we exist, in the numbers that we do, because of our impact on the earth by merely existing. A self-hatred if you will. And before you respond with "if only we did X, it would be fine," consider that the difficulty of convincing/coercing lots of people to do things is also an inherent part of our existence. Also part of our existence is the incentive to cheat to get ahea…

The problem is that we life under a system that demands endless growth on a finite plane.

It's pretty clear that the human population has grown beyond the ability of the planet to sustain a progression towards universal industrialization. Humans have nowhere else to live and we're eroding what underpins our ability to survive.

We more than tripled the human population in the last 100 years. In my own lifetime, the human population has grown by 42%. It's insanity to believe we can continue this without serious consequences.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#22

Post by mainah »

Up here in southern Maine we had many insects, including pollinators all summer long. Still have a few bumblebees hanging around in the few remaining wildflowers.

A strange one was a parasitic wasp that would harvest inchworms and leave them in piles in my shed! Took a while to catch it in the act.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#23

Post by marksbrown »

boringg wrote: post #9
DiffEq wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@babycake I take it that you are making a dig at Western society as a whole or just the U.S.? I think if you took some time and traveled to some of the non-capitalist (Marxist) countries you might see the utter horrifical ecological damage that they are doing and have done to the world. I think if all told you might find that capitalist countries have done a better job with the environment - I am not saying they have…

The anti-capitlists have this utopian alternative world where all problems cease to exist and the power is distributed equally. I get the indulgence in the fantasy worlds but best to stick with reality and work with the system we have both the flaws and the strengths.

Perhaps consider a steel man instead of a straw one. Socialist institutions that cover natural monopolies save the state money simply by economies of scale. I'll grant not all industry could or should be nationalised but certainly healthcare in the US is a prime example of market failure.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#24

Post by revolvingocelot »

missedthecue wrote: post #8
babycake wrote: post #3

[flagged]

If only the government had nationalised industry, these bugs would be alive?

The difference between a nationalised industry and a publically-offered industry is that the nationalised industry has a chance of properly dealing with externalities, treating workers properly, ensuring safe long-term functionality, and, y'know, prioritizing the service they're there to provide.

This situation is covered by the first, though I bet the things that are killing the insects are hurting us, too.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#25

Post by drocer88 »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #10
rootusrootus wrote: post #5

Sometimes I don't know what to believe. Wasn't there a counterpoint posted here on HN a while back? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24133315

The New Yorker doesn't read HN.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th...

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#26

Post by brandon272 »

daenz wrote: post #7

Sometimes I get the sense that people hate that we exist, in the numbers that we do, because of our impact on the earth by merely existing. A self-hatred if you will. And before you respond with "if only we did X, it would be fine," consider that the difficulty of convincing/coercing lots of people to do things is also an inherent part of our existence. Also part of our existence is the incentive to cheat to get ahea…

Sometimes I get the sense that people would rather put their head in the sand than discuss the realities around human impacts on the Earth.

This has nothing to do with "hating that we exist", however, at a minimum we probably have a responsibility to study, discuss and understand our impacts on the Earth, and not just for what it means for other species, but for what it means for us.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#27

Post by nickff »

ashtonkem wrote: post #17
missedthecue wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only the government had nationalised industry, these bugs would be alive?

[flagged]

Historically, the capitalist countries have been much less-polluted ('cleaner') and more environmentally friendly in general than the communist countries. With respect to 'socialist' countries, the correlations depend on exactly how you define socialism, and which countries you include/exclude.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#29

Post by throwaway803453 »

tw04 wrote: post #14
daenz wrote: post #7

Sometimes I get the sense that people hate that we exist, in the numbers that we do, because of our impact on the earth by merely existing. A self-hatred if you will. And before you respond with "if only we did X, it would be fine," consider that the difficulty of convincing/coercing lots of people to do things is also an inherent part of our existence. Also part of our existence is the incentive to cheat to get ahea…

>We can't live like native Americans with iPhones. We probably could in the next 100 years through automation, massive reduction in population, and making things to last instead of making things to be replaced. Building a society whose values aren't based around never-ending growth. We won't, but we could.

There is a good anti-growth counter argument/observation in Homo Deus. Population growth necessitates economic growth otherwise you end up with unemployment which destabilizes society and can lead to war.

If you don't have population growth you still need economic growth to provide upward mobility to people at the bottom. Without growth you have a zero-sum game which again can lead to war.

Ideally improvements in efficiency or a shift values/culture can create a world where we can have economic growth without increasing the burden on the planet.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#30

Post by abakker »

tw04 wrote: post #14
daenz wrote: post #7

Sometimes I get the sense that people hate that we exist, in the numbers that we do, because of our impact on the earth by merely existing. A self-hatred if you will. And before you respond with "if only we did X, it would be fine," consider that the difficulty of convincing/coercing lots of people to do things is also an inherent part of our existence. Also part of our existence is the incentive to cheat to get ahea…

>We can't live like native Americans with iPhones. We probably could in the next 100 years through automation, massive reduction in population, and making things to last instead of making things to be replaced. Building a society whose values aren't based around never-ending growth. We won't, but we could.

massive reduction in population is a very ugly thing. There's basically no good way to do that.
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