The very story of each of WhatsApp, Signal, etc. is a testament to why interoperability across apps matters much less than user reach and feature velocity within an app ecosystem. Most people don't actually mind using different apps for different things once their friends are there, because functionality tends to break at the edges (even creating a simple group chat becomes a pain across non-cooperative networks)
Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
211–220 of 422 posts
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#212> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…
For all you know your Signal contacts are using a CLI client and then forwarding the messages through SMS to their feature phones :^)
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#213> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…
I want this to take off. I'm tired of having to follow trends because people suddenly think there's a new shinyshinytrendy thing around: IRC to ICQ to MSN to Skype to Google Talk to Facebook Messenger to Whatsapp to Signal. Pidgin is good (I also miss the ancient Trillian, even though it was closed source), but limited to a local device. There are XMPP Transports as well for these (see https://git.eta.st/eta/whatsxmp…
> why would you trust ANY 3rd party with your so sensitive data
Because trust is not a binary value and I don't have the time to do literally everything myself
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#214Back in the day before the rise of Facebook, there was an open source service that combined all the popular messaging protocols - MSN, AoL, IRC, etc. It was called Pidgin[0], and it never got particularly big. I see the same thing here. While it's interesting, I'm failing to see what the use case is. What's the niche that needs this solved in a big way? [0] https://www.pidgin.im/
I really love libpurple plugins for pidgin and how they can be combined.
For example, I was able to communicate using OTR on vk.com (russian facebook clone). Probably other niche messaging plugins work with OTR too (it's just plaintext messages, after all).
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think it's a great offering, but I share GP's reticence about a system that puts what used to be zero-knowledge conversations in plaintext on a third-party server...all without me realizing. Element CEO here, you must be a tinfoil hat crazy person, everyone should communicate in cleartext, you're not a terrorist are you
Element CEO here, why won't anybody think of the children?!
Element CEO here, this comment thread made my day!
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#216> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…
In theory, signal could work with matrix people to support bridging with e2e encryption.
But as far as I know, signal wants to be walled garden. So then it is expected that people create work arounds.
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
> (because you’re an activist or whatever) How about because I'm a regular person, and I don't want everything I say analyzed by the federal government and stored in perpetuity? I'm increasingly repulsed by this notion that unless I'm doing something illegal or in opposition the the ruling party, encryption is just a luxury. Encryption is for anyone with any desire to express themselves honestly without modifying the…
> People flock to Signal for a reason Why would you go to a walled garden if you want more freedom/control? You should just go to Matrix and host it yourself (and keep all the metadata to yourself, too!).
People available to communicate with is a key metric of a communications platform. All of these services lack a large number of regular people. For better or for worse, Signal is the one with the most.
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
No - the bridge could be compromised without your conversation partner’s involvement. I.e. the bridge is a vulnerability that enables man in the middle attacks.
From your POV, the threat model is equivalent to your partner being compromised themselves, and reporting your conversation to criminals/terrorists/law enforcement/intelligence agencies/boogeyman du jour. Bridges don't install themselves in place of platform's messengers - it's the user that has to make an active choice to use one. If you don't trust your partner making a right choice for both of you, you can't reall…
this is extremely not true. federal authorities can compel the bridge operators to log messages sent over the bridges and disclose them on receipt of a national security letter or other sealed warrant. this is just not the case right now - messages sent between parties on signal cannot be intercepted. that the communication endpoints are vulnerable is and remains true but this creates a new vulnerability in the interlink.
worse:
> currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future)
suggests some kind of re-encryption for storage which appears to resolve the issue but does literally nothing to solve the problem. if the bridges have your keys and can decrypt your messages, you're exposing yourself to attacks on the bridges themselves.
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#219How safe is this to use? Couldn't WhatsApp or Signal detect you're routing everything to a shared hosting server somewhere and ban your account as a bot, stating the fact you're probably breaking some ToS clause?
I am wondering the same. Did WhatsApp ok this or will it get shut down the moment it gets any traction?
Their terms of service [1] clearly state:
> You must not (or assist others to) directly, indirectly, through automated or other means, access, use [..] our Services in impermissible or unauthorized manners [...] including that you must not directly or through automated means: [...]
> (g) sell, resell, rent, or charge for our Services or data obtained from us or our Services in an unauthorized manner;
> (h) distribute or make our Services available over a network where they could be used by multiple devices at the same time, except as authorized through tools we have expressly provided via our Services;
> (i) create software or APIs that function substantially the same as our Services and offer them for use by third parties in an unauthorized manner
Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t run my own service for the same reason I don’t build my own car or I don’t do accounting for my company, I don’t have the time to learn how to do it nor doing it.
That is the kind of comment that freaks me out on HACKER news.
Why? Specialization is a thing. Not everyone specializes in security. Which let's be real, being an expert in security is really difficult, especially since it's a constantly moving goal post. Unless you're an expert it's probably not a good idea to roll your own.