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My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

alecmuffett.com

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Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#31

Post by lowkey_ »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14
lowkey_ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On one hand, it seems everybody wants more freedom and less surveillance, but they give FB a hard time for not monitoring content better. I don't think these are conflicting views: (1) Less monitoring on private messages (2) More monitoring on public posts

> 1) Less monitoring on private messages The Facebook leaker is explicitly arguing against this though. She cites Facebook’s push for end-to-end encryption of private messages as a problem.

I'm merely clarifying HN's common opinion.

As for the whistleblower, I'm very skeptical of her — to be a tech PM against encryption, and somehow linking e2e encryption to making the platform less safe, is dubious at best. Removing misinformation and calls to violence on the Facebook platform doesn't need to include monitoring private messages.

The idea that she's been a PM at large tech companies for 15 years and doesn't understand that Facebook monitoring messages will mean China can monitor those messages is almost too suspicious to believe.

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#32

Post by secondaryacct »

yodsanklai wrote: post #5
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…

HN is a bit schizophrenic on this topic. On one hand, it seems everybody wants more freedom and less surveillance, but they give FB a hard time for not monitoring content better. Hopefully these aren't the same people expressing these contradictory points of view. I'd be curious to know what both side think the ideal social network should look like.

Maybe decentralized completely: do not talk to my kids about your BS paranoid and my kids should just see whatever kids want to see.

We dont exactly need a centralized humongous social website. Im on both sides honestly: I want facebook to subside in profit of isolated more freedom-centric micro network where we can say what we want but wont impact massively crowd thinking ?

Like that if monitoring must happen it happens in isolation, and if freedom must exist it s not on the same place as the other fucktards?

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#33

Post by thereddaikon »

yodsanklai wrote: post #5
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…

HN is a bit schizophrenic on this topic. On one hand, it seems everybody wants more freedom and less surveillance, but they give FB a hard time for not monitoring content better. Hopefully these aren't the same people expressing these contradictory points of view. I'd be curious to know what both side think the ideal social network should look like.

HN isn't one person with a single set of ideals and opinions. Its a website, with many people who's worldview ranges quite drastically. Tech, like anything else in the world, is going to have a cross section of humanity in it. You have libertarians, anarcho-capitalists, traditional GOP and Dems, European Socialists and full on communists here. You can't expect such a diverse group to have a homogenous view.

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#34

Post by md2020 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…

As much as some on HN like to criticize Moxie/Signal for their decisions (Intel SGX debacle), seeing these kinds of sentiments get cheered on in the media makes me really glad they exist. Same for the Tor Project, Matrix.org Foundation, EFF, etc. Can’t be easy being in their positions ever, but especially right now.

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#35

Post by PragmaticPulp »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #20
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Less monitoring on private messages The Facebook leaker is explicitly arguing against this though. She cites Facebook’s push for end-to-end encryption of private messages as a problem.

> Facebook leaker is explicitly arguing against this though. She cites Facebook’s push for end-to-end encryption of private messages as a problem. One doesn’t have to agree 100% with an ally.

If someone is going to Congress and lobbying against end-to-end encryption of private communications, how are they an ally?

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#36

Post by ghaff »

junon wrote: post #18
yodsanklai wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a bit schizophrenic on this topic. On one hand, it seems everybody wants more freedom and less surveillance, but they give FB a hard time for not monitoring content better. Hopefully these aren't the same people expressing these contradictory points of view. I'd be curious to know what both side think the ideal social network should look like.

> I'd be curious to know what both side think the ideal social network should look like. I'd rather they didn't exist, honestly.

How do you define social networks? Should email mailing lists not exist either because those are absolutely social networks in a way as were BBS systems?

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#37

Post by abrahamepton »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…

I don’t understand why it matters what Haugen believes - whether in “no encryption” or space fairies or whatever - instead of what she proved, which is the profoundly amoral and dishonest nature of the company.

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#38

Post by bostonsre »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…

> her suggestions really do not align with what the tech community wants at all.

I feel like we as a tech community should take a step back and consider whether or not we should not be the only ones that decide what should or should not be done. It is a massive country with many opposing viewpoints.

We have massive conflicts of interest and some tech companies have shown over and over that greed trumps morals in many cases. We are humans and we are not a group of enlightened arbiters that know what is best for the world.

We have done a shit job so far of managing ourselves. Sure in lots of cases we have made the world a better place but I think we need to be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that greed has crept in and supplanted that "making the world a better place" mission.

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#39

Post by helen___keller »

yodsanklai wrote: post #5
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…

HN is a bit schizophrenic on this topic. On one hand, it seems everybody wants more freedom and less surveillance, but they give FB a hard time for not monitoring content better. Hopefully these aren't the same people expressing these contradictory points of view. I'd be curious to know what both side think the ideal social network should look like.

Like any social network, HN falls into polarized, sometimes unproductive, discussion with certain topics. For HN, that's frequently discussion of big tech and their antics and discussion of censorship/moderation/surveillance.

Links about the intersection of these topics, such as apple/CSAM or facebook/moderation, are most likely to have comments that devolve into polemic without much productive discussion taking place.

Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post

#40

Post by watwut »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…

Whistleblower and activist are not mutually exclusive. Most are both, like Snowden was both. Reality Winner too. And whether I agree with someone views is really not relevant toward whether they are whistleblower.
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