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I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

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Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#91

Post by TaylorAlexander »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #78
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #38

Kind of a tangent but this really makes me think about this problem I see with thinking in Silicon Valley. It seems to be a common belief that if someone is solving a problem they have with some product or service, they are helping everyone in the world. But the rest of the world is very unlike Silicon Valley. Someone making an app to help them book a masseuse is not going to be solving problems for people who cannot…

I agree with your first paragraph. But you are discounting the rarity of productive labor and the value of R&D. Yes, we have serious vices in the US with our spending on frivolous pursuits, but at the same time we're doing incredibly ambitious things. If we undercut the profitability of those ambitious pursuits, we lower the number of ways to get funding to those enterprises. In the face of low payoffs for big ideas,…

I have this discussion a lot, and I've found that many people share your belief. However I disagree with this view. I recently wrote a comment with citations here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28664769

But the gist of it is: patents prevent many people from innovating. That is the purpose of a patent: others are prevented from following forks of a given idea to the benefit of one entity. I argue that the losses to society from preventing so many people from following forks of an idea are greater than the benefits gained by giving one entity a monopoly. Constantly locking down new ideas for 20 years actually encourages companies with patents to rest on their laurels (see the linked comment above for figures) and prevents motivated newcomers from trying variations on the patented idea.

People often say that without patents, investment would cease. But the linked example in the above comment features a great first hand account from an engineer and hacker about the innovation that happens in China when anyone can take ideas from others. It's a vibrant development environment in fact. My view is that investment would not cease, but the nature of investment would change. Instead of fewer larger investments, we would see more frequent smaller investments. So the economy would continue to function fine, only without constant barriers to copying all the good ideas would spread rapidly and many people would experiment with forks on those good ideas. In the end, the rate of innovation would be higher without patents, I believe, than it is with them. A relatively unorthodox view, but I find that those in the orthodox camp also tend to significantly discount the amount of innovation that happens in the normal course of market competition without intellectual property in play. Market forces already reward innovation. Patents do create a bigger reward for those innovators who make it all the way through the patent process, but at a great cost to society. This is why 3D printers only dropped in price by 50% after their first ten years on the market, and then dropped in price by 98% in the first ten years after the patent expired (see the linked comment for figures).

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#92

Post by optymizer »

6177c40f wrote: post #89
dustintrex wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McSweeney's has a not-inaccurate take on the joys of CSA membership: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/faq-about-your-csa

Fairly accurate, though I love CSAs (and I suspect this is a loving parody by the author). What I find especially funny is > What the hell am I supposed to do with all these turnips? Do people really not know what to do with turnips? Turnips are amazing- roast them, put them in soups, they're great. Now radishes, on the other hand, those are a mystery to me.

Not sure what to do with turnips, but let's fix this radish situation right now.

Radishes are awesome! I like to eat them raw with just a bit of salt, but for a general cooking frame of reference, you can use radishes anywhere you would use a cucumber.

Here's some salads I like to make with radishes:

    ========================
    = default radish salad =
    ========================
    * radishes (thin round slices)
    * chopped scallions
    * dill (a lot)
    * salt
    * pepper
    * olive oil
    * chopped fresh parsley (optional)

    From here you have a few options:
    1. just add some vinegar and/or a bit of lemon
    2. for a tzatziki-like route, use lemon, garlic and greek yogurt. Cucumbers are totally optional here (the salad becomes more watery).


    ========================
    = poor-man's cole slaw =
    ========================
    * cole slaw without the mayo
    * add thinly sliced radishes


    =======================================
    = tomato salad loaded with vegetables =
    =======================================
    * thick sliced tomatoes (1/2 inch cubes or pyramid-like shape)
    * onions
    * sliced cucumbers
    * diced red bell pepper
    * thinly sliced or diced radishes
    * olive oil
    * salt
    * pepper
    * half a dozen kalamata/black olives
    * greek feta sliced into 1 inch cubes
    * chopped fresh parsley (optional)

    Dip sourdough bread into the tomato juice at the bottom to get to heaven.

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#93

Post by xenocyon »

Factorium wrote: post #56

Tomatoes "have no significant nutrient content" according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato#Nutrition And are 95% water. They just taste great due to the umami flavour. Is there any way to grow nutritious food that isn't just transporting water everywhere? https://tools.myfooddata.com/nutrient-ranking-tool/Water/Veg... I guess this is the end result of selecting for 'yield' which is basically just we…

For one thing, your own source shows that tomatoes are a rich source of many different vitamins, minerals, and fiber. But furthermore, this treatment of nutrition is a little reductive. You could eat highly processed food that is formulated to deliver the desired daily value of major nutrients, yet it would fail to deliver the same benefits as a simple diet of fruit, vegetables, small fatty fish, and nuts - even if the latter isn't optimized for nutrients. Why is this? We don't seem to know enough to answer at this time, but it appears food is more complex than a tabulation of various nutrients.

So does this mean we should be trucking tomatoes long distance? Not at all. People should eat whatever fresh produce grows locally, and supplement with canned or fermented foods that capture the benefits of faraway and out-of-season crops without the downside of wastage and shelf-life optimization.

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#94

Post by tmnvix »

treeman79 wrote: post #72
hnzix wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to see any scientific evidence supporting AIP. The food elimination diet is very scientific - you add items back in one at a time to test if they cause a negative reaction to your particular physiology.

That’s what I ended up doing. Ate nothing but sweet potatoes for a month. It was the only food I was sure didn’t cause a problem. Most boring month ever. Felt amazing at the end of it. Was shocking when I introduced things back in.

I've just finished a five day water fast and plan to limit my diet, introducing new types of food slowly while observing any undesirable effects. Would you mind sharing some of the foods which you found most surprising or troublesome?

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#95

Post by hoytech »

mikesabbagh wrote: post #67
martythemaniak wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First time I flew into Amsterdam it was dusk and I was mesmerized by the seemingly endless fields of greenhouses growing weed. Only years later (after telling everyone about it) did I learn they were actually growing produce :D Dutch tomatoes have a reputation for being bland ("water bombs"), is making more flavourfull ones just product focus? Like picking the right varietal, picking them at the right time, deliverin…

In Europe, tomatoes are Dutch and feed the more southern countries. In North America, Canada imports tomatoes from the US in winter!!

Technically true, but Canada exports more tomatoes to the US than it imports. It is the 5th largest tomato exporter in the world. Here's an article about tomato growing in Canada: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/16/473526920/ho...

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#96

Post by lenova »

opinion-is-bad wrote: post #28

Interesting, but not that dissimilar to the United States. I grow a couple thousand acres of tomatoes in California, all of which are for processing into juices and pastes. These tomatoes are all transported in open-topped trailers by semi, and the losses have always bothered me. There is a tight turn just after leaving our property and the pile of tomatoes there grows steadily with the season as they roll off the to…

> I grow a couple thousand acres of tomatoes in California

I would love to hear more about your lifestyle, please! Is this for work, or for pleasure?

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#98

Post by hanniabu »

opinion-is-bad wrote: post #83
throwawaylinux wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We rotate one year tomatoes with one strand of alfalfa, which lasts 3-5 years and regenerates nitrogen into the soil. So for a given plot you do tomatoes for one year every 4-6 years, do I understand correctly? Does it matter so much what other crop you plant, in terms of reducing the fungus? Alfalfa is just a good choice for its nitrogen fixing? Could you leave it fallow for example? (just trying to get ideas for…

Alfalfa is especially good for adding nitrogen, but clover can do the same for a home garden. You are correct on the number of years between plantings, but really only 2-3 years off are needed to clear the fungus. Alfalfa just lasts longer. As another comment mentions, some other common crops have the same disease risk, so avoid potatoes and eggplants too many consecutive years. Fallowing it an option, but a little n…

I have this issue right now with my tomato plants. Am I right in my understanding that you don't necessarily need to crop rotate and just supplementing the soil with nitrogen would be sufficient?

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#99

Post by hanniabu »

mikesabbagh wrote: post #66
opinion-is-bad wrote: post #28

Interesting, but not that dissimilar to the United States. I grow a couple thousand acres of tomatoes in California, all of which are for processing into juices and pastes. These tomatoes are all transported in open-topped trailers by semi, and the losses have always bothered me. There is a tight turn just after leaving our property and the pile of tomatoes there grows steadily with the season as they roll off the to…

another interesting fact: if you see a plant growing on human sewage solids, it must be a tomato plant!! https://i.imgur.com/qByHRvo.jpg

Would you be able to eat fruit from that? Does bacteria travel to the fruit from within the plant?

Re: I’ve been reading a whole lot about tomatoes

#100

Post by asdff »

optymizer wrote: post #73

I'm a big fan of tomatoes - we used to grow them at home in Europe, and I swear to you I have found 0 tasty tomatoes in the US, aside from this one tomato that my friend's boss grew in his garden, which tasted almost like a tomato should. Sometimes I feel like entire generations of people in the US don't know what a good tomato tastes like because they've never had a proper tomato. I find the tomatoes in US stores bl…

Farmers markets and home gardens are where you find the tomatoes you are thinking of, rather than chain retailers. The produce you see in the stores are developed to be shipped in. Heirloom varieties are too fragile, even in the farmers market the tomatoes at the bottoms of the piles will be damaged from the weight of those above.
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