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WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

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Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#331

Post by rexreed »

Zababa wrote: post #313
def_true_false wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all nice and well, but some of your examples are not things that save effort -- using phone numbers is surely better for network effects, but not in any way simpler then having regular account registration, unless you just completely ignore security. WA apps are not better than the competition. Basic stuff like a way to disable automatic downloading of media for groups you are in is still missing. No desktop a…

> Discord, with similar team size, was able to build something that succeeded in displacing IRC I think they displaced Skype, mumble and teamspeak too.

Discord displaced Slack in our organization and we're never looking back at Slack ever again.

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#332

Post by topdancing »

paxys wrote: post #259
topdancing wrote: post #73

You can very easily build your own WhatsApp server today by simply deploying https://www.ejabberd.im/ on a box and using https://conversations.im/ on an Android phone.

And talk to yourself on it?

Not at all, I have a bunch of friends on my private server and getting someone an XMPP client and account takes less than a minute. No phone number or email required.

Sure, everyone out there isn't going to be on my server - but for the close friends I care about - it's been flawless.

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#333

Post by toomanyrichies »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #277
ryanSrich wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why, after being both an engineer and a product manager (and VP of Product), and now a CTO of a seed stage startup, I’m fairly convinced PdMs are unnecessary. At least for the the type of company I’d like to build (WhatsApp as a primary example of that). Off loading the founders vision to someone else is a failure of both communication and org structure (at the seed-SB stage). People may not think hiring thei…

>> adequate business context, a decent design spec, and letting them figure it out. I wish more PM's thought like you.

Ditto. As an engineer, it feels like product managers often feel a need to keep cranking out new features as a way to justify their seat at the table. I would love to work in an engineering culture which found a way around that problem. If that means the job falls on me instead, so be it.

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#334

Post by albrewer »

arthur_sav wrote: post #252
dano wrote: post #220

I looked at it this way. The thing most engineers, hero's or not, want to work on is new projects and to build products customers enjoy. The last thing they want to work on is maintenance. In my last personally owned company, small as we were, the engineering team and I documented how things worked as part of what we did every day. We found that by having the inner workings documented so that anyone in the team could…

> Just having the system continually documented In my experience this is the hardest part. Can't count how many times my team started documenting and then slowly, for one or the other reason, the documentation became outdated. The cycle is: Meetings for communication -> becomes too cumbersome and time consuming -> implement policy to document things -> everyone start documenting (for a month or two) -> docs are not u…

This is supposed to be enforced in code review or with other team practices / processes.

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#335

Post by streamofdigits »

papito wrote: post #214
streamofdigits wrote: post #167

Beware of survivorship bias. Team does X, does not achieve scale, nobody knows about it Team does X, achieves scale, X is the new sliced bread

The first team does not achieve scale because they are still building microservices. The word of the day is "lean".

intuitively I would agree, but the point of my comment was that intuition might be a poor guide if we want to understand what kind of team and software architectures "succeed".

if you rewind some years microservices was also the word of the day (and probably there were some iconic projects picked to justify...)

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#336

Post by aliswe »

moralestapia wrote: post #231
btbuildem wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they sold to FB. I think parent meant "they failed to make money on their own"

You probably don't know the story. Selling was part of the plan all along. Whatsapp didn't even try to make money on their own.

source?

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#337

Post by varelse »

kweinber wrote: post #271
GLGirty wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between hero or primadonna can be environmental. When there are multiple experts for a department/tech stack, you get heroes. If the bus number is one, a hero risks converting to a primadonna.

Environments don't create primadonnas. It's a matter of attitude and maturity. Being an expert doesn't make a person insufferable.

In my experience, insufferable mid-level management can bring out the worst in the best people, and then accuse them of being primadonnas because they are absolutely incapable of any self-reflection themselves.

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#339

Post by numair »

dleslie wrote: post #326
numair wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post-FAANG digital infrastructure. This is that moment, when the cycle starts all over again.

Anything of note we humble readers should take a look at?

I’m having one of those “why can’t there be 36 hours in a day” moments in life, but I’ve got to publish more about this very soon, so, it’s on the way.

When you combine the story of WhatsApp’s small team / high impact development with the remote work shift of the past few years, it seems that the next cycle (regardless of when/what it is) will be the first that isn’t centered on SF/SV/California. It’s interesting to think of how that’ll affect the psychology of the area.

Re: WhatsApp scaled to 1B users with only 50 engineers

#340

Post by Drew_ »

namdnay wrote: post #216
Traster wrote: post #45

I think one thing to consider is that WhatsApp is probably by nature a scalable application. It is in the end, simply a client app that sends data to other client apps. So by nature, you scale in parallel very well, there are no 1-all communications. So unlike something like facebook where the data all needs to go to a central server and be polled by an unknown (but potentially arbitrary large) number of clients, in…

> It is in the end, simply a client app that sends data to other client apps That's not the case. Consider the "one tick" messages - they must be on a server somewhere. One tick means they've left your phone but aren't yet on (all) the recipients' phones

Servers proxy the message yes but once all recipients (maybe a dozen clients in the worst cases) receive the message, the server can drop the data once and for all. No need to optimize for harder problems like search, caching, or recommender systems.
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