Bridge to Engine Room: We need more DIVs
My...only....regret...is that....I have......div-itis...
Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
101–110 of 151 posts
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#102I agree that coding your design into HTML/CSS is a waste of time generally. I've had good luck with PSD-to-HTML services.
So instead of Adobe automagically converting my design to HTML/CSS/images, you get humans from India (or wherever) doing it by hand.
For $100 - $200 you can get clean, cross-browser, easily tweakable HTML/CSS and images. And you get it in 24 hrs.
I've used www.psd2html.com a few times and the quality was quite high.
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#103This software, Muse, was not used to build that website. The software used is Business Catalyst ( http://businesscatalyst.com/ ), an enterprise CMS (all-in-one solution urgh ) Adobe bought 2-3 years ago. And yes, the semantics are very bad. In fact, I disliked this piece of software so much, I wrote a post about it a few months ago: http://arnorhs.com/2011/01/19/11-reasons-why-business-cataly...
Hi Arnorhs,
I am Alexandru working for Adobe, and I recently took over Business Catalyst.
We did read your review and took it at heart - it wasn't easy as you were very direct. However, there is a lot of truth in your review and there's a lot for us to improve. And believe me, that's our goal - to improve the product until customers love it and we have folks like you give us much better reviews :) - because you would actually like the product.
I'd love to chat with you and try to show you where we're going and get your perspective on what should we do differently. Your feedback would be very important for us.
If you're interested, please contact me at acostin@adobe.com
Sincerely,
Alexandru
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only thing I see is that the jquery is served from a CDN address that has catalyst in the name. Where else do you see something pointing at Business Catalyst?
Also at the top there's this comment: also see: http://twitter.com/#!/bc_obnw And if you view a screenshot of the html of the top of the page and compare that with the BC website: http://cl.ly/2g2w0I3w0L1m1R1j1Z1O vs http://cl.ly/0m3Y0s0J3r0d3H3h4626 When you think of it, it is very possible that the website's theme/html/CSS was built using muse at one point, but then it might have been transformed into a BC theme/te…
This is correct, the site is hosted on Business Catalyst, but the generated markup is pure Muse.
BC can host any HTML files, we don't enforce a specific markup or template constraints.
Alexandru
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#105This software, Muse, was not used to build that website. The software used is Business Catalyst ( http://businesscatalyst.com/ ), an enterprise CMS (all-in-one solution urgh ) Adobe bought 2-3 years ago. And yes, the semantics are very bad. In fact, I disliked this piece of software so much, I wrote a post about it a few months ago: http://arnorhs.com/2011/01/19/11-reasons-why-business-cataly...
Hi Arnorhs, I am Alexandru working for Adobe, and I recently took over Business Catalyst. We did read your review and took it at heart - it wasn't easy as you were very direct. However, there is a lot of truth in your review and there's a lot for us to improve. And believe me, that's our goal - to improve the product until customers love it and we have folks like you give us much better reviews :) - because you would…
I'm sorry if I hurt somebody's feelings (though, that was not my objective).
There were a lot of positive articles on-line when I was evaluating BC. But I later found out that most of them are written by various BC-partners (a good business decision there) - but that also meant that they were a bit biased and skipped over the bad parts.
I'll send you an email. I'm pretty sure Adobe is able to make it better (I'm an avid adobe fan mind you)
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#106Please, tell me this is Adobe trying to mock IE. It has to be, right? I mean, they've always sort of not valued source code, but this is beyond torturing it. This is so inspirationally horrible someone spent hours remaking it, like it should've been: http://studentweb.infotech.monash.edu/~wlay/FIT1012/muse-dem... .
To add insult to injury, the layout is broken in chromium on Ubuntu. Whereas the remake you posted is running as expected. http://i.imgur.com/otaOc.png
Speaking of which, "Adobe Air is not available for your system." :-P
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#107I wouldn't recommend Muse purely because this is how that page renders for me:
http://i.imgur.com/c7tBl.png http://i.imgur.com/6DUW0.png http://i.imgur.com/sfGmv.png
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
This . And, not to mention no business owner want to get locked into a solution, they want their "data" transferable and standardized to at least some extend. The code this produces is so horrible you've lost all the time spent with it. Muse dies out, and your time spent in it dies with it.
And, not to mention no business owner want to get locked into a solution, they want their "data" transferable and standardized to at least some extend. That's a weird thing to say. Why do many business continue to use things like MS Office - or rather, its fabulous file formats then? Or other vendor-lock-in products? Don't misunderstand me, I'd wish all businesses would think like this, because open standards are inf…
Maybe - but nobody uses Front Page, and for good reason. The tools need to reach some critical point of utility and dependability before business will make single-vendor investments.
Still, it absolutely defies reason that a business would need to hire someone specifically to edit a bit of text or change a font on a web site. Once a credible product along these lines hits the market, the terms HTML and CSS will disappear from the overwhelming majority of job descriptions, forever.
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi Arnorhs, I am Alexandru working for Adobe, and I recently took over Business Catalyst. We did read your review and took it at heart - it wasn't easy as you were very direct. However, there is a lot of truth in your review and there's a lot for us to improve. And believe me, that's our goal - to improve the product until customers love it and we have folks like you give us much better reviews :) - because you would…
I'm sorry if I hurt somebody's feelings (though, that was not my objective). There were a lot of positive articles on-line when I was evaluating BC. But I later found out that most of them are written by various BC-partners (a good business decision there) - but that also meant that they were a bit biased and skipped over the bad parts. I'll send you an email. I'm pretty sure Adobe is able to make it better (I'm an a…
This. Is one of the things I love about HN. When you can write a critique of a product, and hear from someone directly involved in it, that's a fantastic thing. When they're a fellow-HN reader, even better.
Re: Oh, Adobe... read the copy, then view the source.
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a good reason for that - clean HTML is not just the territory of pedantic/obsessive designers, it has tangible and important benefits to many sites (note: many, not all). Sure, if you want a personal homepage, or put up an ode to your dog Scruffy on the internet, tools like this may very well work for you. But in those use cases, we've already had capable tools for years , many of which produce cleaner code t…
Just like PNG output from Photoshop, soon HTML+CSS output from design applications will beat most humans, or at least be reasonably close so that this complaint doesn't apply any more. It's not very hard to do a lot better than the source code of this web site. Will Google design their homepage with Muse? No, they want to hand optimize it. Will people design websites for small businesses that get accessed a handful o…
That's a good analogy, because until recently, I was writing all my PNG files by hand.