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The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

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Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#211

Post by varjag »

b3morales wrote: post #191
varjag wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm regularly in meetings where people are on camera and where everyone has them off. It's clear the degree of people not following the discussion when the cameras are off is much more substantial.

And so, having made this observation, what steps have you taken to ensure that your meetings are purposeful and relevant to the people who are attending, so that they feel able to participate?

I rarely organize any of these meetings, so it's not my call. But people on those are usually relevant.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#212

Post by varjag »

Kye wrote: post #201
varjag wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm regularly in meetings where people are on camera and where everyone has them off. It's clear the degree of people not following the discussion when the cameras are off is much more substantial.

Maybe they're paying as much attention while on camera, but using the same fake signals they use to look like they're paying attention at in-person meetings.

I'm not talking about social signals, but people going like "sorry what, could you repeat the last point" when called out.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#213

Post by ljf »

lucumo wrote: post #25

> following a day of virtual meetings I've done full days of real meetings. Those were exhausting and very draining. I'm surprised that anybody would expect anything different from virtual meetings. I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices. It's less so when I've met the people IRL. I'm guessing I can then link their image…

Across my roles in the past 10 years or more, I've probably spent more than the average amount of time in f2f meetings - and I am someone that enjoys a great f2f meeting or ideas generation/problem solving session.

When we first moved to video due to covid I was exhausted every single day. I grew to hate video calls. But how much of this was my inexperience with the tech, my own lockdown tiredness and just the general funk of life at the time, I cannot say.

18 months later I LOVE video calls. I love the fact that I'm in my own comfy quite space, I love the fact that I can move from standing to sitting and back without distracting those on The calls. I love that I can turn my video and mic off and have a pace around or eat some food.

It is great - and yes as you say the video helps hugely.

Years ago I was working with an international team that my local team were struggling with. Each day we'd be in a phone call and I could feel the tension simmering. Then we got video going, saw we were all humans and got back in the problem, solved it and came out of the delivery good friends. I swear being able to see them and knowing they could see us changed everything about how we worked together and behaved.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#214

Post by kayodelycaon »

piva00 wrote: post #195
kayodelycaon wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just feel that when I hear these weird to me reasons that I can’t understand, I just assume the person hasn’t showered in a week. So... if you don't understand someone else's reasons for doing something, you assume they aren't being honest with you?

> So... if you don't understand someone else's reasons for doing something, you assume they aren't being honest with you? I feel you are getting somewhere with this train of thought, so far I've replied a few people on this thread that seems to think this way and project this need of having a camera on because they don't understand how that can negatively affect others and assume people are being dishonest.

Having a disability that isn't visible, I deal with this problem all the time.

The underlying issue is thinking of other's behavior as if it it was own behavior and then determine the other person's motivates from that assumption.

If you don't understand someone else, you'll assume their reasons for a specific thing are the same as if you were doing that thing.

Example: I take more days off than I have PTO for.

Conclusion: I'm claiming to have a disability to get to have more vacation days.

Reality: I've gone six months without any kind of vacation and many of my weekends spent barely recovering from work. My disability has taken so much from me that I find it hard to justify staying alive.

When I get back to work, people ask how my vacation was.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#215

Post by kodah »

Fiahil wrote: post #67
kodah wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context: I'm a lead engineer on a team with six products. I keep my camera off in meetings. I'm in far more meetings than I can possibly be productive in. I'm also usually not the active speaker in meetings. Why stare into a camera when what my yearly bonuses are calculated on is work/team output? I've found most meetings I get into are either: - Developers who can't figure something out from documentation and a…

Same context, but I keep my camera on to help others do the same. I spent the last six months with an org that had a strong remote culture but held meeting on phone conference call. So I've worked with some of my teammates long enough to hear their children but I never saw their face. It really helps to connect with the person you are talking to when you see them when speaking. My only exception is when I do large co…

> It really helps to connect with the person you are talking to when you see them when speaking.

I don't feel the same way. I connect with my colleagues fairly easily, video or not. I was also raised in a world with gaming and IRC, so having to pay better attention to tone and phrasing inferences is second nature to me.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#216

Post by Minor49er »

lucumo wrote: post #25

> following a day of virtual meetings I've done full days of real meetings. Those were exhausting and very draining. I'm surprised that anybody would expect anything different from virtual meetings. I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices. It's less so when I've met the people IRL. I'm guessing I can then link their image…

> I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices.

I've had the opposite feeling. With cameras on, everyone looks at each other's faces for cues on when to start speaking, but the lag leads to people speaking over each other. There are a bunch of "oops, sorry" moments followed by a lot of awkward pausing while we try to climb back out of the uncanny valley.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#217

Post by sdw1 »

nanny wrote: post #207
par wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello, would love to learn more about what hardware you are using. I am in the market for a high quality condenser mic and arm to hold it. I am already using a Scarlett Solo interface. But would appreciate any info you can share on your light and audio setup. Also why do you need multiple elgatos? Just for convenience?

What is your use case? There is really no need for a high-quality condenser mic in the vast majority of cases. For work meetings, voice chats, streaming, etc. the difference between an AT2020 and a high-quality mic will be entirely imperceptible.

To be fair, the AT2020 is a high-quality mic compared to the dollar store AirPods your colleagues are using...

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#218

Post by pwr-electronics »

BobbyJo wrote: post #185
makeitdouble wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, there's also far less participation when everybody has their camera off. I feel this is a blessing in most cases. Remembering in-person meetings, half of the “participation” was asking to get back one slide before to check a point that went too fast, questions on points that are dealt with two slides further, people getting asked questions as a punishment for being visibly bored to death, and fact…

> get back one slide This is all even worse if you try to carry over the same process to remote work. I feel like virtual meetings increase the emphasis on slides too much. In person, the presenter can be up front, gesturing, pointing, really bringing animation to the slides. In virtual meetings it's just the screen share of the slide and a talking head. It's a horribly unengaging experience.

The easy fix to this is sharing presentation files before the meeting so everyone can follow along however they want. Meetings should mostly be to discuss the information that you already have, not to be surprised with brand new information.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#219

Post by foxfluff »

avisser wrote: post #194
varispeed wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We only use it for introductions and when someone has something to show, e.g. their pet. Unfortunately a new manager insists that everyone should have cameras switched on for "human connection" and so that people feel more integrated.

I wouldn't discount human connection enough to quote it. I've been the only remote person on a team pre-pandemic. It was easy to see others as assholes who just cause work for me if you never/rarely put a face to

I've also been the only remote person on a team pre-pandemic. I never needed the camera. We did use it for a stint but switched to audio only due to technical issues. Even when we had the cameras on, I'd quickly end up switching to another desktop and focus on information relevant to the discussion: issues, personal notes, meeting notes, code, schematics, datasheets, etcetra.
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