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Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

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Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#231
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secretly colluding in backroom deals to intentionally hamstring privacy protections seems pretty unambiguously... bad? Can you explain how anything Microsoft or Apple has done has worse implications for society?

Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Then both Microsoft and Apple often performs huge patent litigations for nonsense patents they spam, Google doesn't. Both Apple and Microsoft uses their industry dominance to push their own products and push others products out of the market, Google does that as well but before it seemed they didn't do it at the sa…

> Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do.

Google has offices in China.

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#232
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's clear that Chrome must be separated from Google and Alphabet, nothing else will stop them from trying to colonize the web. Or advocate for open alternatives, use Firefox, and make sure any site you build (or you build at work) work perfectly in non Chrome browsers.

The real problem is that Google/Chrome basically run the internet. If Google decides to change some internet standard, Firefox and web developers all follow suite like lemmings. It's like Google has become the authoritative leader in web without any sort of process or watchdog. Aside from getting people off of Chrome, the other need is to get people to stop following Google's leadership on all things web.

> The real problem is that Google/Chrome basically run the internet.

Only because we let them. We gave them web domination, we the nerds told everyone and their mother to install Chrome so they do out of habit now.

We sit and watch while Google bend the web to their will with AMP and dozens of non standard specs everyone hurriedly tries to support while we come up with excuses like "it faster", "the dev tools in chrome are better".

Without a monopolistic marketshsre we give them they can't do this as easily.

Go install Firefox and make it your default browser. Or just carry on using Chrome and wonder why Google keep getting away with doing antisocial, anti consumer shit.

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#233
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always blows my mind seeing the things people who work at google/fb are willing to "walk out" / "protest" over, and then these insidious things they're willing to just sit back and let happen. When I moved to the bay area working at FB/Google was something I held in high regard and was a career goal of mine. Now I get hit up by recruiters from them often... and I don't message them back. It hurts thinking about ho…

> It always blows my mind seeing the things people who work at google/fb are willing to "walk out" / "protest" over, and then these insidious things they're willing to just sit back and let happen. symbolic action is always easy. but you're asking them to strike (refuse to work) in response to unethical demands, without the collective backing of their peers, in an industry that views union activity with - at best - s…

They're creating an infrastructure of manipulation because of the collective impact of the industry within the current legal context of international privacy protections. Any individual project or feature can look trivial or harmless, like manipulating the order of articles in a feed, but the systems used to do it are mechanisms implicitly susceptible to bad incentives.

They're collectively pressing buttons and breaking things in the global psychology, influencing the zeitgeist in a way that no one person or company intends. Obama's campaign was the first major successful political use of that infrastructure and there's an argument to be made that Trump's election was enabled by it. Cambridge Anallytica exposed some of the controls and showed a portion of what can be done, but we haven't seen the worst yet. International troll farms, the recent infiltration of Christian and BLM Twitter and reddit, and so on.

When people are profiled by advanced algorithms, and access to people given based on those profiles, that access can be made completely transparent using deanonymizing methods through data from other sources. Any and every platform, forum, and community becomes exposed to hostile, unintended influence.

We need outsized fines that protect private data as if it were sacred such that a trillion dollar company would fear even a single violation. Such that violating privacy would result in individuals going bankrupt or prison time. Such that physically bombing a foreign datacenter would be seen as reasonable recourse if they were uncooperative.

There are things that no government or private organization should have absent the informed consent of users because of the implicit danger to society's basic functioning.

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Action should be taken against Google here, not the average user (about 70% of whom use Chrome). Throttling based on user agent (Firefox, WebKit Safari, etc) would be a bad thing if you ran YouTube and wanted to encourage people to use Chrome - it would likewise be bad if you ran a website like HN. Users have power when they have control - Google is taking that away, and that's why antitrust legislation makes sen…

Then consider the 1 second delay as an advertisement for consumer power. Google/YouTube annoys users with similar or even longer delays all the time. So I don't think you can see this as an "action against the user", unless you consider all non-user-tracking advertisements as an action against the user. Also, the campaign can stop when Chrome and Firefox reach an equal user-base. So "the user losing freedom of choice…

Nice link!

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#235
post #90

159-169, about Google being able to decrypt end-to-end encrypted WA (WhatsApp) communications is terrifying. The fact that Google has known this for over 5 years and made no effort to notify the public is what really got me. What's fucked up is that Google Drive backups are the only ones WA offers, and naturally everyone wants their messages backed up so they turn it on, not knowing the implications.

And what are the implications? Is Google analyzing uploads to Google Drive to serve you targeted ads? That would be a big breach in trust.

> and what are the implications?

Remember when Google was working on the DoD’s autonomous murder drone project?

Isn’t WA the predominant means of text communication for people who travel abroad regularly?

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#236

Google should be broken up into 5 parts: Search/Adwords/Mail/Drive, Android, Chrome, Maps & GCP.

Sovereign states are anemic by now and i'm skeptical that they would want to fight where the money and (real) power is, and if they grow some balls, or stop being so corrupt, even than, i'm skeptical that they will manage to win this fight.

We are entering into a new era where big techs are so massive they can fight sovereign states and win, heading us into a new era of neo-feudalism were "civil rights" are only granted if they are not in the middle of our new digital lords lust for profit and power.

So people might think this is unlikely and conspiratory, but its just natural human nature, social dynamics and following the political vectors by the aggregation of the past events.

If they are willing, they know the secrets of everyone, and its just a matter of pressing the right people to bow to their will and that's it, we become the fools of Weimar republic that were not aware of the dangers ahead of us, because there were no historical precedent to make us vigilant and aware, and all the signs were well aligned to a hostile takeover.

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Then both Microsoft and Apple often performs huge patent litigations for nonsense patents they spam, Google doesn't. Both Apple and Microsoft uses their industry dominance to push their own products and push others products out of the market, Google does that as well but before it seemed they didn't do it at the sa…

> Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Google has offices in China.

But its services aren't available in China. Both Apple and Microsoft runs services like search or appstore in China. You can't access Google search or Google appstore in China since Google refuses to hand over the related user data to CCP, both Microsoft and Apple hands over that data to CCP and works to help CCP censor its critics.

I agree that the "don't be evil" part of Google has mostly run out, but some of the effects are still there or Google would already be operating in China just like Apple or Microsoft. So until they do operate services in China I'll say that they aren't more evil than Microsoft or Apple who do operate services in China.

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both Microsoft and Apple happily collaborates with CCP, that is a big one that Google still doesn't do. Google has offices in China.

But its services aren't available in China. Both Apple and Microsoft runs services like search or appstore in China. You can't access Google search or Google appstore in China since Google refuses to hand over the related user data to CCP, both Microsoft and Apple hands over that data to CCP and works to help CCP censor its critics. I agree that the "don't be evil" part of Google has mostly run out, but some of the e…

My point is that if they're allowed to operate in China, then they have to bend to the will of, and collaborate with, the CCP if they want to remain there.

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#239
post #235
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what are the implications? Is Google analyzing uploads to Google Drive to serve you targeted ads? That would be a big breach in trust.

> and what are the implications? Remember when Google was working on the DoD’s autonomous murder drone project? Isn’t WA the predominant means of text communication for people who travel abroad regularly?

> Remember when Google was working on the DoD’s autonomous murder drone project?

They did just a demo, Amazon and Microsoft are the biggest contractors in that space. News media loves to shit on Google in these scenarios but most of it is just Google trying to take a pie of markets others are already in. So all these articles just amounts to Google becoming as evil as the other tech giants.

For example, we know Microsoft takes on these DoD AI projects. Maybe the VSCode telemetry is used to help them make murder drones? We also know Microsoft collaborates with CCP to operate its bing search in China. Maybe they hand over the VSCode telemetry to CCP? People don't ask those questions about Microsoft, so why ask them about Google?

Re: Google digital advertising antitrust litigation [pdf]

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But its services aren't available in China. Both Apple and Microsoft runs services like search or appstore in China. You can't access Google search or Google appstore in China since Google refuses to hand over the related user data to CCP, both Microsoft and Apple hands over that data to CCP and works to help CCP censor its critics. I agree that the "don't be evil" part of Google has mostly run out, but some of the e…

My point is that if they're allowed to operate in China, then they have to bend to the will of, and collaborate with, the CCP if they want to remain there.

But the argument is evilness. That is a problem, but I don't see how that makes Google more evil than Apple or Microsoft that has already bent to the will of CCP with seemingly no complaints.

My argument is basically: Over the past 10 years Google has made great strides towards becoming as evil as a typical big corporation. They are about there today, not sure if they are there or just soon to be, but they are certainly not significantly more evil than the other big corporations.

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