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New language features since Java 8 to 17

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Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked Java 1.4. Generics were a mess. And Java before generics was so wonderfully simple. Yes, you had to cast, but that wasn’t a big issue. My favourite language would be Java 1.4 with carefully redesigned standard library (because old standard library was not very nice).

Isn’t that almost Go? Well, before Go generics land.

Indeed.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#102
Glad to see Java improve, but I still would like to see more ML features:

- ~Exhaustive pattern matching~ it’s here!

- Algebraic data types

- Tail call optimisation

- Do notation

- Operator overload

Why not use another language? Well, the name “Java” guarantees buy-in at this point. Maybe it will eventually be a Trojan horse for ML :)

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#103

Java sucks, and should stop being taught as the defacto language in computer science curriculums. It's extremely busy and verbose. There are better OO languages out there, if the point is to teach OO. (I'm ready for this post to get downvoted into oblivion)

Regardless of OO 'quality' of a language, if you consider that most university degrees are an avenue to successful employment then it's easily one of the best ones to learn due to the current market alone.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#104

Java sucks, and should stop being taught as the defacto language in computer science curriculums. It's extremely busy and verbose. There are better OO languages out there, if the point is to teach OO. (I'm ready for this post to get downvoted into oblivion)

Could you please support your statement with reasons?

https://thenextweb.com/news/universities-finally-realize-jav...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Java#:~:text=The%...

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Alan-Kay-dislike-Java

https://vic.nightfall.moe/2016/04/03/Some-reasons-why-I-hate...

https://developers.slashdot.org/story/08/01/08/0348239/profe...

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#105

Java sucks, and should stop being taught as the defacto language in computer science curriculums. It's extremely busy and verbose. There are better OO languages out there, if the point is to teach OO. (I'm ready for this post to get downvoted into oblivion)

Could you please support your statement with reasons?

  public class Main {
      public static void main(String[] args) {
          System.out.println("Hello, world!");
      }
  }
vs

  print("Hello, world!")


Please comment again if you still cannot see the bloat/unnecessary verbosity.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#107

Java sucks, and should stop being taught as the defacto language in computer science curriculums. It's extremely busy and verbose. There are better OO languages out there, if the point is to teach OO. (I'm ready for this post to get downvoted into oblivion)

Being verbose is a plus. I really really really hate the terseness of Kotlin and how it's basically unreadable without an IDE.

Languages should be dumb. Standard libraries should be smart. Not the other way around. The number of syntax constructs that generate standard library calls when compiled should be minimized as much as possible.

Edit: one more thing, operator overloading is extremely harmful for readability.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please support your statement with reasons?

public class Main { public static void main(String[] args) { System.out.println("Hello, world!"); } } vs print("Hello, world!") Please comment again if you still cannot see the bloat/unnecessary verbosity.

Global scope is a terrible invention. The less implicitness there is, the better.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#109

Java sucks, and should stop being taught as the defacto language in computer science curriculums. It's extremely busy and verbose. There are better OO languages out there, if the point is to teach OO. (I'm ready for this post to get downvoted into oblivion)

There is still a huge market demand for Java. Moreover the recent releases are doing a great job adding features following recent trends. If thought using JDK 16+ a student will be able to move to Kotlin, Swift, Scala, ... much more easily than few years ago. IMO it's more about updating the curricula than dropping Java.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#110

Java sucks, and should stop being taught as the defacto language in computer science curriculums. It's extremely busy and verbose. There are better OO languages out there, if the point is to teach OO. (I'm ready for this post to get downvoted into oblivion)

I agree with everything here except the "should stop being taught as the defacto language in computer science curriculums". Realitically, a CS curriculum needs to at least vaguely prep a student for life in the industry, and Java is not only massively popular, but is also a great way of showing how OO is used in practice i.e. kinda badly. No point teaching everyone about beautifully architected Smalltalk programs just to have them work on hacky Java monoliths from 2003 (not to mention BusinessObjectTpyeFactoryGenerator.java).
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