New language features since Java 8 to 17 • Hacker News Board

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#41

Post by jmfldn » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

jpgvm wrote: post #37

jmfldn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great not unfortunate. If Java improves because of Scala and Kotlin then so much the better, this is how languages evolve. If it really does evolve to remove the need for a better Java then it would be nice if people switched away from Kotlin and back to it. Scala can then carry on cementing its niche as a powerful commercial FP language. No hate for Kotlin at all but it seems like in that world, there might…

To be honest I see Kotlin continuing to exist because of it's multi-platform nature and it's focus being on different things to Java. So even if feature wise the 2 equalize (a good thing not a bad thing IMO) stylistic differences will remain. Many of Kotlins syntactic differences are unlikely to make it to Java for instance. I'm ok with this. I use both for different things. Kotlin for most app level development, Kot…

Hmm yes I guess you might be right given Android. It's a shame in a way that Kotlin was invented as Scala could have filled the niche too imho but that ship has sailed. It's too similar to both Java and Scala and doesn't really bring anything new to the table. Is that fair or does it have a great USP other than massive Google backing?

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#42

Post by xxs » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #21

rdpintqogeogsaa wrote: post #15

I've been bitten by bitwise operations on signed integers a few too many times. Are there any plans on having normal unsigned integer types yet?

Other than sign-extension on right shift, I can't think of a bitwise operator that has a different implementation between signed/unsigned. What scenarios are you thinking of?

reading and processing bytes mostly. Many people get confused due to the need of bitwise and, yet even if that would be removed I can't quite see the intrinsic benefits, given how difficult would be having another primitive type.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#43

Post by dunefox » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #28

manishsharan wrote: post #25

Whenever we read about new improvement in Java,it is always inevitably followed by concerns for viability of Kotlin or Scala. However these concerns are never applicable for Closure. I am glad I went all in on Clojure.

Can you explain that for the Java noobs here, like me?

Clojure has many functional features and properties that are unique to Lisps and functional languages and aren't shared by Java. Kotlin and Java are much more similar than either to Lisp, so when Java gets more modern features it might cut into Kotlins 'market share' since it makes it less powerful when compared to Java.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#44

Post by junon » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #30

irl_chad wrote: post #6

We must have a “new features since Java 8” post every other day.

Because plenty of people judge Java by their pre-Java 8 frozen knowledge. At least it isn't yet another link to re-written in Rust headlines.

I must be in the minority of thinking java 7 was the last great version of Java. What I see today is a nearly different language.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#45

Post by sgt » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

manishsharan wrote: post #25

Whenever we read about new improvement in Java,it is always inevitably followed by concerns for viability of Kotlin or Scala. However these concerns are never applicable for Closure. I am glad I went all in on Clojure.

Yeah I think most Java devs are a bit in awe of Clojure, just not sure about the leap needed to get there.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#46

Post by mavelikara » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #2

Unfortunately it looks like Java is going to evolve enough to take the wind out of the sails of Kotlin and Scala for most dev shops. I guess the positive take is that those improvements might not have happened without the efforts to develop better JVM languages.

Java's implementation of generics was heavily influenced by a language called Pizza. Sun hired the author of the language, Martin Odersky, to write the compiler for Java. Odersky later went on to develop Scala.

Java improving borrowing ideas from other JVM languages had happened in the past, and that has made the ecosystem stronger. Nothing unfortunate about it.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#47

Post by rzzzt » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #21

rdpintqogeogsaa wrote: post #15

I've been bitten by bitwise operations on signed integers a few too many times. Are there any plans on having normal unsigned integer types yet?

Other than sign-extension on right shift, I can't think of a bitwise operator that has a different implementation between signed/unsigned. What scenarios are you thinking of?

Java has both >> and >>> operators for sign-extending and zero-extending right shift, respectively.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#48

Post by xxs » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

JulianMorrison wrote: post #23

It's good to see Java starting to waive a lot of the boilerplate. (And frustrating, when stuck on v8.)

A friendly advice: dont be afraid to use public final immutable fields and omit the getters (and setters since you cant have them w/ finals).

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#49

Post by Thaxll » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

manishsharan wrote: post #25

Whenever we read about new improvement in Java,it is always inevitably followed by concerns for viability of Kotlin or Scala. However these concerns are never applicable for Closure. I am glad I went all in on Clojure.

Isn't closure on its way out though, not like Perl level but going downhill? Kotlin on the other hand is raising.

Re: New language features since Java 8 to 17

#50

Post by atomicnumber3 » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

pooya72 wrote: post #24

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume OP prefers Kotlin or Scala. Personally, I think one of my favorite things about Java is that, all things considered, it's a small-ish language. So I'm glad that Java is both willing to evolve (slowly, letting other people try stuff out first) but also clearly focused on a curated feature set and resistant to letting new stuff in to bloat it. I am very happy to deal with minor things like no multiline string…

By multiline strings are you referring to text blocks? Those have been added to the language in Java 15: https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/15/text-blocks/index.... .

Oh, sorry, I know, I mentioned it specifically because it was "only" just added in Java 15 (which is basically "now" in Java timescales heh, and has only literally just now (with 17) made it into LTS AdoptOpenJDK releases, which also haven't quite landed on many distros package repositories, etc etc.). So for some weird value of "right now" Java still doesn't quite have multi line strings due to its newness.