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Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

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Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#51

Post by [deleted] »

015a wrote: post #42
auslegung wrote: post #2

They almost certainly aren’t listening to you https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertGReeve/status/1397032784703... . But the likely explanation isn’t any better imo.

For me, its less about ads (I run adblocks everywhere, both on the computer and at the router level); but, the same idea surfaces in YouTube recommendations. One recent example was some random show a friend was telling me to watch. Later that night, YouTube started recommending videos about the show. I've tried to explain it logically, in much the same way a character in scooby-doo would say "there must be a logical…

[deleted]

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#52

Post by jrootabega »

8note wrote: post #17
elmomle wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. I have multiple times been served articles on my Google news feed about specific topics (e.g. dishwasher efficiency) that are orthogonal from my typical interests and that I had only ever discussed offline and never electronically in any form. I can think of no plausible explanation for this aside from Google obtaining audio that is ambiently gathered by my phone and feeding that back into their artic…

How do you know that your conversation partner did not look up dishwashers after your conversation? Or that there was not a trending YouTube video about dishwashers around the same time that prompted the conversation?

Yeah, and that's even more scary. Devices listening to you isn't NOT scary, but these companies are able to inject discussion topics into your personal life without you even realizing it. Online ads are, at worst, billboards. If you see a detergent ad right before you go grocery shopping, it doesn't matter that you didn't click it; just being at the top of your mental stack is worth a lot of money to them.

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#53

Post by sneeeeeed »

saagarjha wrote: post #24

This article doesn’t make any sense. > For your smartphone to actually pay attention and record your conversation, there needs to be a trigger, such as when you say “hey Siri” or “okay Google.” In the absence of these triggers, any data you provide is only processed within your own phone. This might not seem a cause for alarm, but any third party applications you have on your phone—like Facebook for example—still hav…

You’ve dived the source code?

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#54

Post by saagarjha »

sneeeeeed wrote: post #53
saagarjha wrote: post #24

This article doesn’t make any sense. > For your smartphone to actually pay attention and record your conversation, there needs to be a trigger, such as when you say “hey Siri” or “okay Google.” In the absence of these triggers, any data you provide is only processed within your own phone. This might not seem a cause for alarm, but any third party applications you have on your phone—like Facebook for example—still hav…

You’ve dived the source code?

No, because I don’t have it. But I’m familiar with how to use a disassembler ;)

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#55

Post by jshaqaw »

I’m not sayin this is impossible but… if it emerged that big tech was secretly spying on every citizen the political backlash would end these companies as we know them and every CEO would end up in jail. Or there is at least a 50 percent probability of that outcome. It’s hard to see these companies engaging in such practices out of self interested rationality.

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#56

Post by ghaff »

jshaqaw wrote: post #55

I’m not sayin this is impossible but… if it emerged that big tech was secretly spying on every citizen the political backlash would end these companies as we know them and every CEO would end up in jail. Or there is at least a 50 percent probability of that outcome. It’s hard to see these companies engaging in such practices out of self interested rationality.

And they're risking it all getting out so that they can do some crappy ad targeting.

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#58

Post by blitzar »

behringer wrote: post #34
cgriswald wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I notice this experience, it's usually because it's something I don't normally talk about. I don't believe that Facebook knows so much (about me and the people around me) that it knows about unlikely conversations I've just had based on (say) a conversation on a radio station I randomly heard while skimming through channels. I'm willing to believe it's a coincidence combined with my brain happening to bring it t…

The reality is that they, the ad companies, caused you to think about it or talk about it in the first place without you ever realizing it. Ads work incredibly well on people even when they think they aren't susceptible.

What is more scary - they listened and then advertised to you or that you are so predictable that they can get you to talk about something totally random with your friends and then sell it to you all?

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#59

Post by eightysixfour »

bryans wrote: post #47
eightysixfour wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using some sort of hash instead of transcribing the speech doesn’t change any of the things I listed that make this implausible. There would need to be a background service that has access to the mic without using the official APIs (which show a mic notification) that somehow no one has been able to find for the 5+ years that people have been claiming this is happening. The truth for all of these is probably that we…

I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but it does not need to be a background service that's subverting a sandbox. It just needs to be a running app that has been given microphone permissions. Zoom and even basic voice memo apps, for example, can capture and send audio just fine even while another app is in focus, and can do so without displaying a microphone icon of any sort within the OS UI. Most peop…

There's not a 3rd party app on my iPhone that accesses the mic that does not show the microphone notification. Zoom shows the recording icon when open in the background.

> but you're definitely being very naïve and apologetic toward companies whose entire business models are based around invading privacy at all costs

I'm not being naïve and I don't have a facebook for the reasons you mention. My problem is that you're making alot of assertions with no backing and suggesting something that is extremely unlikely is true, so the burden of proof is on you to show that it happens or, at least, how it could happen.

Right now, I think it is highly unreasonable that the social apps are using exploits to gain access to the microphone without the OS being aware. Not to mention the challenge of hashing messy, real world audio for keywords.

Re: Your phone is listening and it's not paranoia (2018)

#60

Post by bryans »

eightysixfour wrote: post #59
bryans wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but it does not need to be a background service that's subverting a sandbox. It just needs to be a running app that has been given microphone permissions. Zoom and even basic voice memo apps, for example, can capture and send audio just fine even while another app is in focus, and can do so without displaying a microphone icon of any sort within the OS UI. Most peop…

There's not a 3rd party app on my iPhone that accesses the mic that does not show the microphone notification. Zoom shows the recording icon when open in the background. > but you're definitely being very naïve and apologetic toward companies whose entire business models are based around invading privacy at all costs I'm not being naïve and I don't have a facebook for the reasons you mention. My problem is that you'r…

I'm happy your iPhone shows you the notification in all situations, but that's not true for older iOS versions or any version of Android -- aside from maybe v11. So to outright claim that it's not possible just because you, personally, don't experience it, is plain silly. Especially because I, personally, can open any number of apps on my Pixel 3 right now and have them record in the background without a microphone icon ever being visible.

And as far as real world audio being a challenge, I think you might be slightly behind the times on the power of perceptual hashing. It's disturbingly accurate with very little context or effort.

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