I'm not sure on the USA but I know that to clear such a logjam will require a lot of workers who might be casual workers. What's the expected impact on these workers?
Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
451–460 of 514 posts
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
For those who didn't see the 5 points, I've copied them below from here https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834 1) Executive order effective immediately over riding the zoning rules in Long Beach and Los Angeles to allow truck yards to store empty containers up to six high instead of the current limit of 2. Make it temporary for ~120 days. This will free up tens of thousands of chassis that right now…
Funny how free-market, small-government, deregulation, rhetoric flies out of the window when own profit maximization short-terminism falls apart and everyone starts invoking centrally coordinated state intervention. I wonder if some governmental bureau tasked with coordinating this market hasn’t been shuttered in the last couple years to some lobbyist great success…
But we don't live in a world of small governments and deregulated free markets. Without a regulation on stacking LA might not be at a point where any of those other measures are needed. A funny thing would be limiting yourself to approaches relevant in a system that doesn't exist.
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#453Truckers are leaving containers all over Los Angeles.[1] Allowing stacking over 2 high is only useful if you have the equipment to stack over 2 high. A place that just stacks empty containers 2 high probably only has large forklifts. The special equipment for high stacking is far more expensive, and only bought if you need it.[2] A more useful proposal is a "peel pile".[3] This is a system which assigns outgoing truc…
Couldn't large forklifts that have enough weight capacity to lift one full container and enough height capacity to lift an empty container on top of another simply pick up a stack of two containers from the bottom at the same time and put the two on top of a third, making a three-high stack?
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
Funny how free-market, small-government, deregulation, rhetoric flies out of the window when own profit maximization short-terminism falls apart and everyone starts invoking centrally coordinated state intervention. I wonder if some governmental bureau tasked with coordinating this market hasn’t been shuttered in the last couple years to some lobbyist great success…
But we don't live in a world of small governments and deregulated free markets. Without a regulation on stacking LA might not be at a point where any of those other measures are needed. A funny thing would be limiting yourself to approaches relevant in a system that doesn't exist.
Might, would… look, I don’t want to come up with a True Scotsman counter argument, but it does sound like one: blaming this mess on the single one restriction that seemed to exist.
Are we going to blame driving time restrictions next?
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
Funny how free-market, small-government, deregulation, rhetoric flies out of the window when own profit maximization short-terminism falls apart and everyone starts invoking centrally coordinated state intervention. I wonder if some governmental bureau tasked with coordinating this market hasn’t been shuttered in the last couple years to some lobbyist great success…
I agree with you, but this isn't necessarily the best example. In this case, frankly part of this issue had to be resolved by relaxing strict zoning laws that weren't allowing space to be used in a way that the market demanded (offloading empty chassis). Such a measure falls under deregulation/free-market/small-government. The other measures proposed (forcing railroads, national guards etc) are of course of a differe…
Sure, although most of the measures proposed are about a massive mobilization subsidized by government.
One could also argue that it’s still a brittle, overly lean organization if a landscape regulation tipped it into service disruption.
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
For those who didn't see the 5 points, I've copied them below from here https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834 1) Executive order effective immediately over riding the zoning rules in Long Beach and Los Angeles to allow truck yards to store empty containers up to six high instead of the current limit of 2. Make it temporary for ~120 days. This will free up tens of thousands of chassis that right now…
Funny how free-market, small-government, deregulation, rhetoric flies out of the window when own profit maximization short-terminism falls apart and everyone starts invoking centrally coordinated state intervention. I wonder if some governmental bureau tasked with coordinating this market hasn’t been shuttered in the last couple years to some lobbyist great success…
Indeed:
2) Bring every container chassis owned by the national guard and the military anywhere in the US to the ports and loan them to the terminals for 180 days.
Loan them sounds like they want them for free.
What's the plan for the military to move containers during the 180 days if all their kit is loaned out?
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
If such people are homeowners (after all, it is homeowners who are the one complaining about this on zoning boards), they’ll become fantastically wealthy in such a scenario. They have nothing really to complain about except a wealth tax (of course, by limiting property tax increases, California’s prop 13 is like a wealth SUBSIDY).
> they’ll become fantastically wealthy in such a scenario If they leave immediately, rather than struggling to pay their massively increased property taxes, then mortgaging their house to keep up... > by limiting property tax increases, California’s prop 13 is like a wealth SUBSIDY ...which apparently is a good outcome?
More nominal wealth that reduces actual physical wealth (by slowing the improvement of land via adding denser housing) is not a good outcome. It’s just redistribution of wealth from newcomers or renters to existing homeowners.
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it possible China is subsidizing creating the new containers exacerbating this problem?
Nope. China has the steel. China has cheaper labour. China has more efficient logistics systems to move container from place it's constructed to a port. The answer to China being better at 99% of manufacturing isn't subsidies, it's efficiencies.
But this isn't manufacturing vs manufacturing. It's putting an empty container on a ship that is already going somewhere vs clawing tons of raw material out of the Earth, processing the raw material, manufacturing a container, transporting the container.
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#459Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of interest what the mechanism that results in people being priced out of houses they own?
Everything else becoming more expensive, including taxes. Eminent domain is another. Why not worry about renters though? Are they not people?
I’m just asking about the mechanisms that force people out of their homes in US. Nothing more.
Here in the U.K. taxes etc don’t increase with property value, and eminent domain isn’t frequently used. So I lack the context to understand why increasing property values mean people are forced to leave, especially when I look around London and see thousands of people who bought their council homes 50 years ago, and are now living in properties that are worth many orders of magnitude more than what they bought them for. Notably, none of them have been forced out.
As for renters, well the mechanism is obvious, I don’t need someone to explain that to me.
Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations
#460> Also containers are not fungible between carriers, so the truckers have to drop their empty off at the right terminal. This is causing empty containers to pile up.
What does this mean? The individual containers are owned by carriers?
Could this be allieveted also by agreements between carriers (or a merger)?
Or is there some other reason containers are "sticky" to carriers?