Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s probable that many of those interactions are omitting important information or are exaggerating: the conversational equivalent of an affluent white teenager walking past a friendly cop with his hands over his head, which I’ve seen multiple times.
Not in my case. The people who told me the stories were well-established adults who very rarely lose their cool (but some cops have a way to piss you off so they can then justify their violence towards you). So a good general suggestion from your side but doesn't apply to what I've heard and experienced.
Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
591–600 of 615 posts
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#592Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not in my case. The people who told me the stories were well-established adults who very rarely lose their cool (but some cops have a way to piss you off so they can then justify their violence towards you). So a good general suggestion from your side but doesn't apply to what I've heard and experienced.
I’m skeptical, but fair. :) Well, I hope you at least visit other areas of the world besides the US someday.
It's like, I have nothing to do today, oh I know, I'll just come to HN and lie about experiences with cops. Is that what you're implying?
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#593Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You're saying that inalienable rights might exist, depending on US policy? Yes, in practice if not in principle or statute. American citizens and their citizen children have been murdered by drones without a jury trial or public hearing, or much of any due process which may be examined by the public openly. We take the US at their word when we say inalienable rights exist, but their behavior suggests that the US do…
>rights are not only what are claimed, but that which can be exercised freely and without undue restraint You can use a word to mean multiple things, but you have to be clear and consistent in using one meaning at a time and differentiating the context. >In practice, inalienable rights don’t exist. This should change in my view. Inalienable rights are an abstract idea that can't exist. Rights that were never violated…
You left out the first part, where I said “in practice.” As in, it should never occur that our human rights are able to be circumvented, curtailed, or allowed to be violated. That our rights are violated in practice, in reality, is bad and should not happen, and proves that we must act as if inalienable rights are not some platonic ideal, but a lived reality, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
To the degree we are alienated from our innate human rights, it is because we as a society allow it, accommodate it, justify it, and excuse it. It is up to us all, individually and collectively, to do better. We can do better, and must, or we lack the courage of our convictions, and thus prove that the ideal remains an idea only, and not real, not a lived experience in and of reality. Arguing about the “existence” of abstract concepts is not my point. We embody these ideals with our thoughts, beliefs, and especially actions - what we do or do not do in accordance with our stated principles of inalienable rights.
We only have the rights we claim to have, rights we claim as ours by expressing them, even when others disagree, and defying any and all who would deny them to us. Inalienable rights are not up for debate to those who claim them. To have inalienable rights is to talk the talk and walk the walk.
To say inalienable rights exist is not a truth claim about the nature of reality; it is drawing a line in the sand and picking this hill to die on.
> Rights that were never violated could not be conceived of as rights, like "hot" wouldn't have any meaning if there wasn't "cold".
I agree wholeheartedly. Ironically, we discovered human rights by violating those of ourselves and of others, until the consequences of and backlash against such opprobrium became juice not worth the squeeze, deciding not to, and accepting nothing less than our continued newfound freedom.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#594Lots of posts on here about US folks taking bizarre measures to avoid being harassed by authority: travel with burner phones, not using unusual OSes, not using techniques to record, wiping phones before travel. We're just normalizing a slow roll to a police-state.
No, we have Qualified Immunity. The cops can do whatever the fuck they want and then lie about it without any repercussions whatsoever. Even in a case where it can be proven that a cop lied on the stand the court will side with the cops and there is no perjury for cops due to qualified immunity. If we can ever hold police to the same standards as every other citizen then we won't need to try to evade police detection…
Police should be held to a higher standard than citizens, and punished more harshly for transgressions.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#595Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because the voters have accepted the representatives that chose them.
The people do not choose to have one option. The candidates decide to run or not! Have you ever belonged to a club or nonprofit or something? Often they are begging people to run for office unopposed. If nobody wants to, you can't force them. People who do want to, eventually get tired or die and then it can be kind of a crisis to find a replacement. It's similar in small local political races. If you don't vote ever…
Yes, I have. Actually I'm part of the founding team of a nonprofit engaged in developing software to make parliamentarians' voting behavior transparent for their constituency.
Voter apathy is a depressing fact I'm confronted with almost every day. The sad truth is that many people ... simply don't care. The reason we founded votelog is to make people understand what their representatives are up to and make better decisions.
> If you don't vote every year, you might not have noticed?
I try to vote as often as I have the chance to and cherish everyone participating in an informed way in our democracies. Unfortunately for many people, voting is not a duty to be fulfilled but a right to be enjoyed. Just having the right is enough for them.
I guess I'm a bit jaded because I still haven't found out how to make them care to actually fulfill the duty.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#596Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems you are assuming I respond this way no matter what and slare simply pushing your understanding/interpretation as truth. Instead of saying that it's just one side and that if I don't see it now, then I never will, maybe you could give detailed examples? I did ask before if there was any evidence that only one side proposed legislation, yet there was no response. So it should not be that there is a free pass b…
Those are not the facts, and again show a false narrative of 'both sides'. Hate crime has increased greatly, and the great majority of it is from one side (per the FBI and ADF). Only one side controls a major political party, has controlled the White House, has multiple people in Congress advocating for them. Only one side attacked Congress, and has large movements such as QAnon (which has major political figures, of…
"Only one side controls a major political party, has controlled the White House, has multiple people in Congress advocating for them."
I think we have different definitions of "side". Based on the root comment this was about conservative/liberals sides, and Republican/Democrat parties. Both of them have the things mentioned above.
"Only one side attacked Congress, and has large movements such as QAnon (which has major political figures, of one side, appealing to it and even joining it)."
We could say the other side has rioted and burned down cities via BLM protests that got out of hand, including antifa instigated violence. I think both statements are a stretch and are a great example of my prior comment around using a minority to represent the group.
"Very few on the other side advocate open violence, and there is hardly an organization to speak of."
Off the top of my head, there is antifa, which advocates for violence openly. There are representatives who support them. I remember eco-terrorist movements, but maybe those are no longer a concern. There have been plenty of liberals calling for or implying violence individually too, including representatives and presidents.
About the FBI comment, do you have any stats on the ideological background of the perpetrators? I didn't see the FBI compiling that. And sure, the the number of hate crimes has gone up in the past few years, but is fairly consistent with the '08 timeframe, so it's not necessarily a new phenomenon to see them around this level and they will likely fall again.
Your last comment didn't really add anything substantial for me. It was more along the same lines of the previous ones, where you tell me I'm wrong or following a false narrative, yet offer no evidence to illustrate that. I'm going to disengage at this point since I don't see any value coming out of this (facts I've asked for) and I'm a little tired of it being implied that I'm somehow stupid (for not seeing things, things that you also won't provide facts/data to support).
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#597Earlier quoted context omitted.
The people do not choose to have one option. The candidates decide to run or not! Have you ever belonged to a club or nonprofit or something? Often they are begging people to run for office unopposed. If nobody wants to, you can't force them. People who do want to, eventually get tired or die and then it can be kind of a crisis to find a replacement. It's similar in small local political races. If you don't vote ever…
> Have you ever belonged to a club or nonprofit or something? Yes, I have. Actually I'm part of the founding team of a nonprofit engaged in developing software to make parliamentarians' voting behavior transparent for their constituency. Voter apathy is a depressing fact I'm confronted with almost every day. The sad truth is that many people ... simply don't care. The reason we founded votelog is to make people under…
Fine, but isn't it true that candidates are needed before voter apathy is relevant?
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#598Earlier quoted context omitted.
>rights are not only what are claimed, but that which can be exercised freely and without undue restraint You can use a word to mean multiple things, but you have to be clear and consistent in using one meaning at a time and differentiating the context. >In practice, inalienable rights don’t exist. This should change in my view. Inalienable rights are an abstract idea that can't exist. Rights that were never violated…
> Inalienable rights are an abstract idea that can't exist. You left out the first part, where I said “in practice.” As in, it should never occur that our human rights are able to be circumvented, curtailed, or allowed to be violated. That our rights are violated in practice, in reality, is bad and should not happen, and proves that we must act as if inalienable rights are not some platonic ideal, but a lived reality…
Yes, that's what I was addressing. I am saying that "in practice" doesn't work as a modifier, because being "inalienable" is an abstract quality which does not pertain to real things or events.
Like "happy" applied to sand, or "green" applied to thoughts.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#599Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Have you ever belonged to a club or nonprofit or something? Yes, I have. Actually I'm part of the founding team of a nonprofit engaged in developing software to make parliamentarians' voting behavior transparent for their constituency. Voter apathy is a depressing fact I'm confronted with almost every day. The sad truth is that many people ... simply don't care. The reason we founded votelog is to make people under…
>Voter apathy is a depressing fact Fine, but isn't it true that candidates are needed before voter apathy is relevant?
I struggle to understand why.
I have some idea that this because things nowadays happen so far away - as in; I hear news and happenings from the capital - but people usually don't have the means to influence these happenings, they learn to just not participate. Maybe?
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#600Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m skeptical, but fair. :) Well, I hope you at least visit other areas of the world besides the US someday.
Can you clarify on the "I'm skeptical" part, please? It's like, I have nothing to do today, oh I know, I'll just come to HN and lie about experiences with cops. Is that what you're implying?
Hopefully that’s stated directly enough for you.