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Something special is happening in Barcelona

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Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#141

Post by frereubu »

creato wrote: post #99
frereubu wrote: post #40

I had an idea similar to this, based on my experience of Critical Mass cycle rides in London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling) It was called "Cycle Pods", which would be mini-critical mass rides for commuters. You'd probably need between five and ten riders who cycle the same route each day at a roughly similar pace, so you could register with a route and see whose rides were similar to yours. Th…

> There's something about cyclists taking over the road that really provokes some drivers. Every critical mass ride I've ever seen blatantly ignores traffic laws, particularly running red lights. I say this as an avid cyclist and bike commuter: drivers are right to be pissed at them (but not to do something dangerous).

The practical reason for ignoring lights is that if you want a critical mass it has to stay together, otherwise it fragments and your start to lose the safety in numbers. If a light turns red halfway through the mass, with 100 people through and 100 people behind, the 100 people in front can't stop and wait for the 100 people behind, otherwise they'd have to sit there and block the road for people coming from the other direction. It's the lesser of two evils.

Critical Mass is a bit like Reclaim The Streets - it's partly trying to make the point that cycling infrastructure in cities is generally complete rubbish, and one of the few ways people actually feel safe when cycling is to take over the whole road. People driving cars have this luxury every single day, and if they can't take a small inconvenience like waiting for a mass to pass, which often just means something like missing one set of lights, then quite frankly I'm happy to piss a few people off in the name of making a point.

I know it alientates some drivers, but to be honest I very much doubt those people would be persuaded by any rational arguments anyway, and I do know that a decent number of people who watch the mass go past are inspired by it.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#142

Post by frereubu »

pietrovismara wrote: post #81
frereubu wrote: post #40

I had an idea similar to this, based on my experience of Critical Mass cycle rides in London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling) It was called "Cycle Pods", which would be mini-critical mass rides for commuters. You'd probably need between five and ten riders who cycle the same route each day at a roughly similar pace, so you could register with a route and see whose rides were similar to yours. Th…

I like the second idea, but you need reliability in order to choose the bike as a transportation to, say, work. You can't afford to wait to randomly meet someone to share a ride with if you need to be somewhere at a specific time. This also doesn't provide the safety a critical mass would provide.

True, but if you see the number of people cycling to and from work in London at the same time, I think pods could form relatively naturally along the way, with people joining and leaving where necessary. The more people found out about it the easier it would be, but it's difficult to know where the threshold is that means it would start to click, and what it would take to get to that point. Hence why it's still an idea in my head!

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#143

Post by frereubu »

opinion-is-bad wrote: post #108
creato wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's something about cyclists taking over the road that really provokes some drivers. Every critical mass ride I've ever seen blatantly ignores traffic laws, particularly running red lights. I say this as an avid cyclist and bike commuter: drivers are right to be pissed at them (but not to do something dangerous).

Being stuck at an intersection for 10 minutes as cyclists meander through does not make me want to support their cause. Seeing such a large group act in a coordinated and legal manner probably would.

As I said above, you can't really keep a critical mass - and therefore keep safe - without ignoring some traffic laws. I'd be interested to know (genuinely, this isn't just rhetoric) how you'd conceive of something like this happening "in a coordinated and legal manner".

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#144

Post by inglor_cz »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #105
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the city has very unsafe places, IE Rival, cuidad vella. The amount of ambulance sirens and police presence speaks for itself. It feels less safe than London, I have lived in 3 not so good boroughs in London.

Those areas are not that unsafe. I often walk there, even at night. Though I do try to avoid them as the pickpockets tend to hang out there because they're so touristy. And the Ramblas area is very overrated anyway IMO. Barcelona is really not bad at all for violent crime :) There's some places that really are a bit unsafe but it's more out. Like La Mina, there's been some shootings there recently: https://www.lavang…

I visited a lot of Spanish cities. Santiago, Oviedo, Gijón, León, Valladolid, Madrid, Girona, Málaga, Sevilla, Cádiz, Cordoba, Granada and Barcelona so far.

As far as the general sense of unease goes, Barcelona takes the first place. Some people there are outright creepy. I generally like the city, but I would not dare venture into the old centre's small alleys after dark.

Also, pickpockets. All touristy places have them, but Barcelona, man...

Shame, because the city is otherwise a jewel.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#145

Post by [deleted] »

toyg wrote: post #137
Darmody wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a good public transport system, yes, but ironically it's the only city where I felt kind of insecure in the subway. Always making sure nobody is going to pickpocket me or I don't look the wrong way at some guy looking for trouble. A friend of mine works there as security and after all the stories he told me I rather get in a car and deal with the traffic. And I'm saying this as someone who uses the subway to c…

My dad has travelled pretty much all countries between the Atlantic and the Danube, and was only pickpocketed once - in Barcelona. A friend of mine who lives there, freely admits the pickpocketing is out of control - and we're hardened thief-aware Italians. Same for anybody who goes there on vacation and hits the busy hotspots.

[deleted]

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#146

Post by jhugo »

mtekman wrote: post #130
GekkePrutser wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars.. The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own gree…

Cyclists are still given the stink eye in England if they even consider cycling on the pavement (I was once physically assaulted as a teen by a 'concerned citizen' for doing such a reckless thing), despite it being completely normal in other European cities. Before the bike lanes were common, you had to cut your teeth zipping between the cars in the narrow roads, keeping up with traffic speeds, annoying every driver…

> It's very safe now. I kind of miss the mad chaos London used to be when cycling, when only the dumb and the brave dared to battle the busses. When you'd get to work pumped with the adrenaline and the knowledge that you survived the journey

I didn't even experience that and I miss it! Years ago, I watched some TV programme where the protagonist tried to cycle through central London and had multiple terrifying near-misses.

Then I moved there, went for a bike ride and was thinking "what are they on about? there's not _that_ much traffic on the road, there's tons of cyclists, all the buses are pretty cautious, and there's cycle lanes everywhere!"

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#147

Post by HarryHirsch »

maccolgan wrote: post #128
HarryHirsch wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try Cambridge in England just once. The commuter gridlock is appalling. On a bicycle you could just zip by the madness, and you don't even need much fitness.

Cambridge is hardly a modern city, with any form of space anyway.

In Cambridge there are housing estates from the mid-19th century, and there are housing estates developed this century. That statement is just not true.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#149

Post by _v7gu »

throwawaysea wrote: post #84
AlotOfReading wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting Seattle has a better commute situation than Barcelona? Respectfully, that's insane. Moreover, large parts of the city were designed prior to motorized vehicles and encourage frequent mode mixing. High speed is simply not on the table for discussion. The choice is between low speed, low density car traffic, or mixed mode. The latter is clearly much better for neighborhoods and the city as a whole.

Yes Seattle has a better commute situation than Barcelona. It is easy to get from a suburb to the core or to cross the city by car. Even if you live right on a rapid bus line or light rail stop, simply not having to wait for the next bus/train means the car commute is significantly faster. I'm not sure what you find 'insane' in my claim. Certainly Seattle is changing, because the recent local governments have been pu…

Average daily commute in Barcelona is 48 minutes-ranking along with the best cities in US where minimum is 44, and you don't need a car in Barcelona to achieve it.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#150

Post by mejutoco »

throwawaysea wrote: post #103
mejutoco wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A city that manages its density appropriately will have faster travel times via cars compared to public transit or biking This seems like nonsense. Surely public transport has more capacity than cars, or at least it is not guaranteed that cars have more.

I intentionally claimed "faster travel times", not more capacity for people. Low to mid density cities in the US have fast travel times for drivers. They are a significantly better option in terms of travel time than even the best public transit in the world, simply because you are going directly from point to point, at relatively high speed, with no stops, no wait times, and so on. The time savings alone are a big b…

> I intentionally claimed "faster travel times", not more capacity for people

If faster travel times means shorter commute time, surely public transport with more capacity improves the average time for the average person going to the average places.

> They are a significantly better option in terms of travel time than even the best public transit in the world, simply because you are going directly from point to point, at relatively high speed, with no stops, no wait times

I believe the problem with this reasoning is that cars take space, and roads too. Lots of roads and parking will make a place less dense, and will increase distances.

The best public transit in the world covers the areas where on average most people go (thus serving the most people), has better energy efficiency (a single bus consumes less per passenger than a car), and removes the need for lots of parking infrastructure. Everything else being equal, public transport is the most efficient, and provides faster travel times on average for the average person (I concede, not for everyone).

In a place not built for cars (like Barcelona), rush hour is a nightmare where cars hardly move (take the tram in Diagonal in the morning and you will move faster than the cars next to you). Most people there take the metro/bus/ride a bike + walk for less than 30 minutes. As an example, a 30min ride on the L1 red line metro (without changing lines) will bring you from Hospitalet de Llobregat (metropolitan area of Barcelona) to the city center.

I might be biased in favor of cities made to walk, instead of made for cars. What I do not concede is that cars provide faster travel times than the best public transport. I would be happy to get some data that supports your assertion.

That said, I agree with your other usages (cargo, transport people, go to places far away, independence).

It is also true that while traveling on public transport you can read, and by walking/riding a bike you improve your health compared to sitting in a car. A city with less cars is also more walkable. More "walkability" might be better for shops, maybe even improve safety. These advantages need to be weighted against cars too :)

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