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Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

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Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#91

Post by nix23 »

watermelon0 wrote: post #72
nix23 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely fascinating that an open OS like windows (not open as opensource, but open to run every program) takes that route. Microsoft really thinks they can compete with platforms like android or iOS, i have to say: Thank you Microsoft!! You accelerate the downfall of Windows! No one will need you in the future, Adobe on M1(Apple), Development on Linux, Gaming on Linux, Workstations Linux maybe some Apple.

Huh? Android, iOS, and macOS have their own versions of TPM, Microsoft is just late to the game, and it's slowly catching up. Out of the bunch, Microsoft is the only one that even allows custom kernel drivers, since Apple deprecated them with macOS Big Sur, and iOS/Android never really allowed them.

I don't say Android or iOS is more open...quite the opposite.

>Microsoft is just late to the game, and it's slowly catching up.

Why do you think people want yet another platform but in the Microsoft-verse, you choose Windows because it's open and you can run ~every application on it. There is no catching up by closing down your hard-ware framework (aka OS)

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#92

Post by antman »

watermelon0 wrote: post #78
eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

Or maybe this is related to the security, and Windows is the only widely used platform that didn't enforce TPM until recently? macOS is even more locked down, but they don't impede or force users to use Mac App Store.

Ofcourse they don’t force anything because of the competing windows platform which is more open up to now. Apple assumed market dominance and locked everything down on mobile.

What I infer from your observation is that closing down Windows could also adversely affect Mac users, since Apple would not miss this opportunity.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#93

Post by huhtenberg »

pas wrote: post #28
southerntofu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've always been acting as a strong monopolistic corporation with a "fuck you" attitude. Here's a summary of Microsoft attitude these part 5 years: - rebrand as open-source friendly, only open-source whatever narrow side-projects they barely care about but could be run on other systems (VSCode, Powershell); distribute official packages with spyware - monopolize the education system by offering bribes including gra…

Ah, I don't really care about telemetry, but their amazing outlook.com SMTP service rejects mail from small senders, and there's no way to successfully appeal. Yeey, brave new megacorp world!

Ah, yes:

   Hello,

   My name is [Kumar/Numan/Punith/Suresh/Sachin] and I work with the 
   Outlook.com Sender Support Team.
 
   I do not see anything offhand for the IP (xx.xx.xx.xx) that would 
   be preventing your mail from reaching our customers. 

   Good bye and fuck off.
In response to complaining that their servers say -

    550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [xx.xx.xx.xx] weren't sent.
    Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their
    network is on our block list (S3150).
Completely and utterly ridiculous.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#94

Post by Oddskar »

indymike wrote: post #65
Oddskar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's honestly weird to see "Telemetry" labeled as "Spyware" by a technical people that, quite frankly, should know better. Spyware is NOT the same as gathering Telemetry data. You can also just turn off Telemetry in VSCode in the settings. I think a vast majority of people on HN gather data on customer usage of the products that they build. Because it ultimately makes us able to tailor the products better for our cus…

> Spyware is NOT the same as gathering Telemetry data. Telemetry and spyware differ only in the way collected data is used.

I would say the intent very much dictates the what and how of Telemetry as well. There's a huge difference between gathering data on feature usage of VSC vs e.g. slurping up the code from its users.

A lot of software lets you opt-out from Telemetry gathering when you install it. I would not think Spyware would do this.

And I feel like saying it's "only in the way collected data is used" really makes a small thing out of something that is very important. There's a very big difference in doing something maliciously and doing it to genuinely try to make your software better!

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#95

Post by peteri »

intricatedetail wrote: post #35
pjmlp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it will be built on top of WSL3 and all hackers will jump of joy with Windows/Linux.

Many people only use Windows because the software they have don't have a Linux build. Maybe people should start pressuring vendors to make Linux builds and that could end Windows.

There are several reasons for Windows popularity today:

Active Directory - The centralised control it gives corporates.

Games and DirectX - Although this seems to be getting to be less of a reason.

Backwards compatibility - Windows 16 bit apps are now dead, but you can take the VB6 code I wrote pre-Y2K and run it today.

Linux fragmentation - It's difficult to support all the Linux variations with a single binary (or at least it feels that way to me) I suspect it has a very high support cost. Related to this is the GPL and it's potential to force release of source code.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#96

Post by nix23 »

can16358p wrote: post #70
nix23 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely fascinating that an open OS like windows (not open as opensource, but open to run every program) takes that route. Microsoft really thinks they can compete with platforms like android or iOS, i have to say: Thank you Microsoft!! You accelerate the downfall of Windows! No one will need you in the future, Adobe on M1(Apple), Development on Linux, Gaming on Linux, Workstations Linux maybe some Apple.

Yeah my thoughts! But on the other hand people also use Windows because its the default that comes with their new computer. (Not talking about HN community, talking about regular Joe) As long as Microsoft keeps lobbying OEMs to include Windows and there's no good alternative (looking at you, non-tech-savvy user-friendly Linux distros and major software vendors like Adobe, Autodesk etc, they will only keep locked to u…

>But on the other hand people also use Windows because its the default that comes with their new computer.

True, but if Windows cannot run the application regular Joe wants, people will just switch to Chrome OS or Apple or Linux (wine?). Sometimes regular Joe's uses more exotic Software we can imagine, and they choose windows because it runs on it since 25 years. Just some examples i have seen:

-VisualBasic 6 (for model train automation)

-A 20yo siemens software for relay automation

-A ~25yo CNC maschine (Windows software to convert CAM to N-language (self-written postprocessor again in VB6))

And much much more

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#97

Post by neilalexander »

antman wrote: post #92
watermelon0 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe this is related to the security, and Windows is the only widely used platform that didn't enforce TPM until recently? macOS is even more locked down, but they don't impede or force users to use Mac App Store.

Ofcourse they don’t force anything because of the competing windows platform which is more open up to now. Apple assumed market dominance and locked everything down on mobile. What I infer from your observation is that closing down Windows could also adversely affect Mac users, since Apple would not miss this opportunity.

Apple could have done it with the Apple Silicon transition and yet didn’t. More inclined to believe actions over words at this point.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#98

Post by pjc50 »

watermelon0 wrote: post #78
eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

Or maybe this is related to the security, and Windows is the only widely used platform that didn't enforce TPM until recently? macOS is even more locked down, but they don't impede or force users to use Mac App Store.

> they don't impede or force users to use Mac App Store

.. yet. The notarization and signing requirements are steps towards that; there's an escape hatch, but they could close it when it suits them.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#99

Post by gavinray »

orionblastar wrote: post #85
gavinray wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant tweets from self: https://twitter.com/GavinRayDev/status/1446459866059612162 https://twitter.com/GavinRayDev/status/1446460168389136395 WINE and the very popular/well maintained Linux distros have gotten so good in recent years that the scenario is nearly identical to Windows + WSL2, except with the DE reversed. And WINE is never going to run entirely as smooth/easy as regular Windows, though it's pretty dam…

ReactOS runs on old PCs that couldn't run Windows 2000 and up. It only requires 48M of RAM to install. They are getting closer to a beta build. I use the alpha builds in Virtual Box, along with HaikuOS, AROS, and Linux.

Have you ever tried to do work in it or use it as a general purpose desktop?

It wasn't really feasible (IMO) until they put out that initial x64 build in August, but in my ignorant understanding with x64 compatibility there's nothing stopping someone from running VS Code or whatnot on there right?

What're your opinions on ReactOS?

The 30 minutes I played around with it on QEMU were amazing.

We've truly regressed so much in functional UI design. I genuinely felt able to focus better because there was less "going on" on the screen. Felt like my brain wasn't overstimulated with visual information.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#100

Post by smileybarry »

the_only_law wrote: post #4
stavros wrote: post #3

Is there no way to run unsigned software on windows?

For drivers, I don’t think so. You can enable some boot settings that allow you to run unsigned drivers, for development purposes, but it will revert upon reboot, without anyway to enable it permanently.

It's one command and you're forever in test mode[1], i.e.: don't enforce driver signatures:

    bcdedit /set testsigning on
You just have to disable Secure Boot in UEFI first. (And I can confirm Windows 11 doesn't actually require Secure Boot to boot, I've had it off for months as part of win11 certification testing.)

I'm not sure but DRM might revert to lower levels (e.g.: 720p), but that also happens on macOS when you disable SIP IIRC.

1: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/in...

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