Something special is happening in Barcelona • Hacker News Board

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#131

Post by bradknowles » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #111

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #38

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars…

> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars.. The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own gree…

The Netherlands has some of the best bike infrastructure in the world. It’s not really fair to compare Barcelona to them negatively.

Should Barcelona learn from the Netherlands? Yes.

Should Barcelona be blamed for not being as good as The Netherlands? No.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#132

Post by pietrovismara » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 8:36 AM UTC

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #119

pietrovismara wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. I feel like my health and my wellbeing are hostage of a mass of angry egocentric drivers who can't possibly conceive taking a bike ride or using public transportation. Given their aggressive and uncompromising approach, I feel the only way to make this work is to literally force it on cities through critical masses, basically using the same coin they use. They don't care about my health? I don't care about…

This attitude is partially why car drivers are so anti-anti-car people. You attribute such negative traits as egocentrism and anger to them and then insinuate they don’t care about your health. But the truth is that just about everyone outside of your friends and family doesn’t care about your health. It’s mere human nature.

Why should I care about their work schedule then? Is it not my nature as well to disregard that in favor of my health?

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#133

Post by pvaldes » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

What is happening is that after the last years nonsense, plus covid19 thing, is not so appealing to tourism than it was before, specially to inner tourism. So they need to clean their image with more positive news, pretend that it never happened, that all is happy-happy, and move on.

Positive news that are heartwarming and nice but will be irrelevant for the grand scheme of things. Call me cynical if you want, but this is not a real change, is just another PR stunt stuff.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#134

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:17 AM UTC

permalac wrote: post #41

GekkePrutser wrote: post #13

I live there too, and traffic here is pretty busy. Personally I don't really understand why so many people drive. Because public transport here is extremely efficient and cheap. I don't even own a car here and I'm really happy to no longer need one. But if I had kids I wouldn't really let them participate. Even with the police escort, they might lose the group and be on their own in this busy city. I'm from near Amst…

Being in power thanks to Manuel Valls, who was running for a reactionary far right party, did not help on her reputation. Also, she is leading the highest amount of council driven evictions, which does not help either. (for context she reached office on her first time thanks to the anti eviction associations.) She is green, yes. But she is over promising and under delivering.

She didn't make any concessions to Valls at all, as Valls supported her purely out of spite for the alternative. I don't see what the problem with that is.

Also you make it sound like Valls was a fringe far-right nutjob, when C's has two major parties to its right in the political spectrum, and Valls himself left because the party was steering rightwards too much to his liking.

I'm a left-wing voter but honestly these ultra-partisan, polarizing views are a scourge that poisons politics.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#135

Post by pas » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #119

pietrovismara wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. I feel like my health and my wellbeing are hostage of a mass of angry egocentric drivers who can't possibly conceive taking a bike ride or using public transportation. Given their aggressive and uncompromising approach, I feel the only way to make this work is to literally force it on cities through critical masses, basically using the same coin they use. They don't care about my health? I don't care about…

This attitude is partially why car drivers are so anti-anti-car people. You attribute such negative traits as egocentrism and anger to them and then insinuate they don’t care about your health. But the truth is that just about everyone outside of your friends and family doesn’t care about your health. It’s mere human nature.

That's not the problem. The only real factor here is that a lot of people vote against anti-car politics. End of story.

It doesn't matter that they personally are good/bad/green/egoist/selfish/selfless/saints. The problem is that they are short sighted, and don't even try to move the set-point of the traffic situation.

When I drive I hate everything and everyone, it's miserable. Nowhere to park, no one can drive, everyone is slow, everyone is in a rush...

But of course some people doesn't have such a strong emotional response to the situation, or they have a very strong response to mass transit...

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#136

Post by toyg » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 10:53 AM UTC

mtekman wrote: post #130

GekkePrutser wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars.. The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own gree…

Cyclists are still given the stink eye in England if they even consider cycling on the pavement (I was once physically assaulted as a teen by a 'concerned citizen' for doing such a reckless thing), despite it being completely normal in other European cities. Before the bike lanes were common, you had to cut your teeth zipping between the cars in the narrow roads, keeping up with traffic speeds, annoying every driver…

> I kind of miss the mad chaos London used to be when cycling, when only the dumb and the brave dared to battle the busses.

That's a bit like soldiers missing the war period. You damn adrenaline junkies...

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#137

Post by toyg » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 10:58 AM UTC

Darmody wrote: post #68

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #38

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars…

It has a good public transport system, yes, but ironically it's the only city where I felt kind of insecure in the subway. Always making sure nobody is going to pickpocket me or I don't look the wrong way at some guy looking for trouble. A friend of mine works there as security and after all the stories he told me I rather get in a car and deal with the traffic. And I'm saying this as someone who uses the subway to c…

My dad has travelled pretty much all countries between the Atlantic and the Danube, and was only pickpocketed once - in Barcelona. A friend of mine who lives there, freely admits the pickpocketing is out of control - and we're hardened thief-aware Italians. Same for anybody who goes there on vacation and hits the busy hotspots.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#138

Post by toyg » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 11:02 AM UTC

Darmody wrote: post #88

jdavis703 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who works as security/law enforcement is going to have a significantly more cynical view of humanity. Not unlike how software professionals are leery of software quality (e.g. us being generally opposed to digital elections). Personally public transport in Barcelona felt safer than the equivalent in most major North American cities. For example there’s what I believe is a bullet hole in the glass at one of the…

You said it, North American cities. These are not safe cities according to my standards.

The standard mismatch between "Euro-metro" and "US-metro" folks on some things is sadly hilarious - I'll always remember the faces of some SF acquaintances when I mentioned, in passing, that public transport in San Francisco is pretty bad overall... I realized I made a horrible faux-pas and never mentioned it again.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#139

Post by toyg » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

jltsiren wrote: post #126

GekkePrutser wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I think one thing is kinda missing in this setup. The public transport in Barcelona is absolutely excellent. But there's no great way to get into it from the outside if you come by car. Most cities I know have Park & Ride facilities at the outskirts near ring roads. Barcelona doesn't seem to have these (though perhaps I'm missing them as I don't own a car). But I know my colleagues who come from outside are alway…

That's a choice dense cities have to make. Is the city primarily a place where outsiders come to do business, or is it a place where its residents live? If the latter, then you don't want to make coming by car too easy, or you get too much traffic that makes the quality of life worse. Park & Ride is something that rarely makes economic sense. If you have a location with good public transport connections to the city,…

I would argue Park & Ride just doesn't really work in most circumstances. As a commuter, you get twice the stress - a car trip (including the anxiety of leaving your vehicle in public places for extended periods) AND a public transport ride.

It does work for tourists and other occasional visitors, but then the challenge is to make them aware it is an option when they plan the trip.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#140

Post by toyg » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #13

I live there too, and traffic here is pretty busy. Personally I don't really understand why so many people drive. Because public transport here is extremely efficient and cheap. I don't even own a car here and I'm really happy to no longer need one. But if I had kids I wouldn't really let them participate. Even with the police escort, they might lose the group and be on their own in this busy city. I'm from near Amst…

> But if I had kids I wouldn't really let them participate. Even with the police escort, they might lose the group and be on their own in this busy city.

Don't underestimate the resourcefulness of kids - in many ways, Goonies was a documentary ;)

I would have been comfortable with my kids doing something like this at 7 years of age. I recently had to chaperone on a schoolbus for a week - the 5 and 6 yo are still "small" and easily scared, but from 7 up they are basically fearless balls of energy.

Sadly, as society, we don't give kids the level of independence they deserve, because we've been shocked and somewhat indoctrinated by 50 years of newscycle scaremongering. We expect every kid to end up like James Bulger if we let them roam - except statistically there will be one Bulger in millions, maybe billions, of kids. When I think of what I could do at the age my kids are now, I feel like I've let them down - but if I'd done anything differently, I would have had social services on my ass.