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.NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

devblogs.microsoft.com

211–220 of 267 posts

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#211
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and the competition is at this point more between VS and other full-featured IDEs like JetBrains Rider, which is my tool of choice for .Net-development. But, what I didn't know until this recent debacle, is how there is a theory that the reason the .Net-tooling in VSCode is so bad is the same reason we had this watch-debacle. There was some discussion on that in the other HN-thread: https://news.ycombinator.…

I've become more convinced that VSCode doesn't implement certain features to not compete with VS. For example, support for File Nesting. https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/6328 For a while there wasn't really another way to run SQL projects outside of VS. Data Studio recently got support for that though.

I think in this case it's more like "let's not implement something for one language".

In VS the Solution Explorer lists Project Items, not files. Eg it lists DLL References. This means the entire tree view goes through the IVsProject interfaces and you open Solutions and Projects, not folders.

VS Code works on files only and doesn't have a project system that can specify file nesting rules. The simple ask in the PR could be implemented, but it seems arbitrary and other languages will ask for their own rules. (Vue?)

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#212
post #176
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people on record that it was the Azure division head Scott Guthrie who gave permission to open source ASP.NET Core (which at the time was part of Azure). Later the asp.net team merged with the .net team and brought the open sourcing with them. VS has no place anymore. The velocity and mindshare is with VS Code. VS with its visual designers had its place .. but desktop is dead and Xamarin competes with frame…

If your world is vim and Emacs, coding like 1990's UNIX, sure. That are endless features on VS that VSCode will never get.

VS has enabled fast and lazy development for me. I don't have to memorize if a type has a method or property or what parameters a method has. I just type a dot and the IDE will tell me everything I need to know. It's good for concentrating on business logic instead of details of frameworks and libraries, but less good for interview questions if you come around people which have fixation on details.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#213
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IntelliJ doesn't pretend to be anything it's not. VSCode does act as a bit of a trojan horse with its proprietary extensions. I do think it's a bit of a smokescreen

In what way ? Jet brains makes a free open source product and has a paid for product with extra features Ms makes a free open source product with a paid product with more features (thou different code base)

vscode is heavily marketed as open source, not open core. yet key microsoft extensions are closed, as people are often surprised to find out

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#214
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Email isn't the only way Git is used. In fact, email is explicitly external to Git; Got just cooperates well with it. You know what else Git cooperates with better? Push, pull, rebase, squash, a whole world of branching strategies etc. GitHub's PR model is artificially gimped against many useful features of git, to the point where I suspect they actively hate users creating commits and want themselves to be the only…

Do you have any suggestion for alternative systems, which uses this supposedly "real" git flow, paired with reviews? All the git operations you listed work perfectly fine locally on a repo from github, it's only once you want to push to main you have to go through the review-gate and that's configurable. Gitlab works mostly the same as Github, and for both of them you can configure the merge-strategy and PR requireme…

> Do you have any suggestion for alternative systems, which uses this supposedly "real" git flow, paired with reviews?

GitLab (I know it works, because I set up this workflow in my company). Before GitLab: Phabricator, Gerrit.

> All the git operations you listed work perfectly fine locally on a repo from github ...

Irrelevant. GitHub needs to be compatible with Git, not the other way around. This subthread began with the assertion that GitHub wants to break that dependence.

> Gitlab works mostly the same as Github

False. GitLab lets me compare different versions of the same MR against each other. Without extra work. It's right there in the MR diff UI. That's literally what I wanted.

> ... for both of them you can configure the merge-strategy and PR requirements per repo.

Some configuration allowed. Not the same kinds. GitLab's squash-and-merge strategy actually works, even lets me set the commit message! GitHub built their incomplete implementation of sth similar only recently, to catch up with GitLab, but also stopped half-way. That last bit is what gives rise to the suspicion that started this thread: that GitHub doesn't really want to be Git-compatible and doesn't care about Git. GitLab, OTOH, introduced this feature, a long time ago, because it saw people were already using Git this way. I couldn't accept doing development in my company without some kind of auto-squash support.

> which is more based on single commits rather than branches and pull-requests, but in a way their refs/for/master is very similar to a PR except it doesn't have a branch-name

Gerrit has branch names, I don't know what you're talking about. In fact, it has better support than GitHub. I can push a locally created branch and ask for the branch to be reviewed, all from the `git` CLI. I can even change the branch name, push the new branch, delete the old branch (on remote, from local `git` CLI) and all of my changes and their reviews remain intact! The equivalent on GitHub would require me to close my current PR and open a whole new one!

> and you don't need to fork the repo first

This is a good thing. `git clone` is already a fork. I shouldn't have to make two forks, one of them through some external interface, and another through the `git` CLI, just to be able to work on sth. Git's branches are already excellent, there's no need for yet another way to keep separate versions of a repo.

> but under the hood you could say a patchset on a change is the same as a commit on a branch sent for PR.

No. I think your understanding not Git derives almost entirely, if not predominantly, from GitHub. And this is exactly what we're talking about in this thread. GitHub would like to impose their way of doing things on everyone, irrespective not what better ways exist (and have existed since before GitHub was born).

In Gerrit, each change is a commit on a branch. There are versions of commits, each of which is a patchset. This is good and desirable, because it leads to cleaner branches. I like this, I want this, and I've been using this since before GitHub was launched.

GitHub's only supported way is to create a commit for every tiny edit, irrespective of whether it's significant enough to be enshrined forever in the final branch as an independent commit of its own. This adds noise. Buncha commits with just the message 'Typo'. Ugh. Imagine running into one of these in a git blame, months later. Imagine looking at a git log. Just ugh.

And what's the alternative with GitHub? Squash all commits in a PR into a single one. So now I can't have more than one significant commit in the same PR. Okay, fine, whatever; can I at-least make one PR dependent on another one, like a commit that has a parent? Nope!

> In the end, they are all the same and you learn to work with it.

As I show above, they're not all the same. Can't learn to work with sth you need that's missing.

> None of them really fight against the core of git.

If I can just git push and git pull and get all my work done with just that, then yeah, none of them really fight against the core of git. But then why would I use them instead of a headless SSH server?

They all fight against Git, in different ways, when they decide to build custom UX for one workflow or the other. They're telling you what workflows they support. If your workflow can't fit into them, well then they can't do the job you want them to.

This is why both Gerrit and GitLab were built the way they are today: their users needed a certain workflow (feature) and they cared enough about those users that they grew to support such features. GitHub has ... other users ... it cares about more. Not the power users. But power users also are more likely to be defiant, to resist control.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#215
post #36
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, VS needs to be put under VSC management. You saw the same crap with Office vs everything new.

yep, modern Visual Studio is a terrible experience end-to-end it takes at least 3 minutes to start, the UI designer takes 30+ seconds to appear, and starting your process for debugging takes 10+ seconds every single autocomplete takes a few seconds to appear even opening a 100 line .c file takes 10+ seconds, and they KNOW its bad because it pops up a dialog with a progress bar! this is all on a azure "cloud" instance…

Your boss really should be upgrading your laptop.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#216
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why say you love open-source if you keep the juicy bits of Visual Studio Code closed-source? More like you love open-source... for making money. I really dislike this mindset. Sure, it's disappointing that some pieces of VSCode aren't open-sourced, but man, they open-sourced an entire IDE and plugin ecosystem. That's such a fantastic contribution to the open source community, and yet I see comments like yours that…

It's becoming less open source now. And they lock away the APIs they use so that you can't reimplement the functionality yourself. Many interesting parts of the Python extension are closed source. AI autocomplete too. Remote development is closed source. What will they pick next? Conditional breakpoints? In-IDE HTML preview?

>Many interesting parts of the Python extension are closed source

What stops you or anyone else to reimplement those parts?

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way ? Jet brains makes a free open source product and has a paid for product with extra features Ms makes a free open source product with a paid product with more features (thou different code base)

vscode is heavily marketed as open source, not open core. yet key microsoft extensions are closed, as people are often surprised to find out

Make yourself a coffee, get in front of the keyboard and start writing code to replace those extensions.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#218

I've quite unique experience beeing .net dev turning into jvm ecosystem. My decision to switch was based on fact that web is growing and .Net is simply...not fitting there. Specifically what I mean is current VS is just not usable for web dev (comparing to Jetbrains tools), but what is even more important - there is nothing close to Spring Boot in terms of ecosystem richness (important for corpos) and even newest .ne…

> even newest .net 5 is much more cumbersome compared to eg. golang (important for startups).

FYI .NET 6 + C# 10 has a ton of work invested into removing the "enterprise boilerplate" experience and making the language and frameworks more akin to node or go in terms of effort/LoC required to spit out a program:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tutorials/top-l...

There's also a few epics that are specifically focusing on .NET as a compelling cloud framework: https://github.com/dotnet/core/issues/5397

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#219

This is reductive, but I am going to repeat the idea that you should not be trusting Microsoft in the first place. Their GitHub acquisition, VSCode, and CodeSpaces are clearly a moat-building towards making GitHub yet another version of Office 365 where you have to pay $$$ for developer tools. GitHub's workflow already bears little resemblance to a "real" Git workflow, and in 7-10 more years I predict that they will…

I stopped caring about the phylosophy behind Open Source. I am interested if a particular piece of software will allow me to do my stuff easier, better, with lower costs and in a future proof way. Of course I would prefer the source code to be available but I can live without it.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vscode is heavily marketed as open source, not open core. yet key microsoft extensions are closed, as people are often surprised to find out

Make yourself a coffee, get in front of the keyboard and start writing code to replace those extensions.

I don't use vscode (or IntelliJ)
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