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How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

bambooimport.com

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Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#211

Post by mrlonglong »

jameshart wrote: post #95
y4mi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vorsprung is anything that is slightly ahead, so you're wrong there. It applies to a lot more than you seem to think. It's frequently used in describing smallish platforms on mountains, buildings as well for example. The German term for "to lead" would be "führen".

In the ‘small platform that sticks out’ sense the English equivalent would be ‘projection’ (interesting that that comes from a Latin root of ‘something that is thrown forward’, while the German word is more ‘something that jumps forward’), but in the context of the phrase the other meanings of that word would dominate. There’s definitely a sense of ‘getting a head start’, ‘being at an advantage’ to Vorsprung that is…

My late father who was German used to say it meant progress through technology.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#212

Post by jameshart »

mrlonglong wrote: post #211
jameshart wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the ‘small platform that sticks out’ sense the English equivalent would be ‘projection’ (interesting that that comes from a Latin root of ‘something that is thrown forward’, while the German word is more ‘something that jumps forward’), but in the context of the phrase the other meanings of that word would dominate. There’s definitely a sense of ‘getting a head start’, ‘being at an advantage’ to Vorsprung that is…

My late father who was German used to say it meant progress through technology.

It’s a commonly offered translation but there’s a sense in which it doesn’t capture the same nuance.

If Audi wanted to say ‘progress through technology’, why isn’t the slogan ‘Bewegung durch Technik’? Bewegung very much has the sense of ‘progress’, but also has a double sense of ‘movement’, both in the sense of physical movement as well as a social movement. All of which are strong connotations the English word ‘progress’ captures. And would be a good slogan for a car company, too.

But that isn’t the word they chose, so progress is a slightly unsatisfactory translation.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#213

Post by haltingproblem »

cheschire wrote: post #89
oblio wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't there more of an uproar about this?

Uproar usually begins with the results of research and reports. That research and those reports typically originate from wherever the money is. That money typically originates from a new competitor entering the market, or from an established competitor trying to force change in market forces by affecting demand for the products being reported on. Occasionally uproar originates from someone's personal motivation, but…

One of the most insightful comments in this thread. Lays waste to the whole idea of "science happens" and instead brings forth the more realistic: "science happens when it is the interest of someone with resources for that line of research to progress".

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#214

Post by cheschire »

haltingproblem wrote: post #213
cheschire wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uproar usually begins with the results of research and reports. That research and those reports typically originate from wherever the money is. That money typically originates from a new competitor entering the market, or from an established competitor trying to force change in market forces by affecting demand for the products being reported on. Occasionally uproar originates from someone's personal motivation, but…

One of the most insightful comments in this thread. Lays waste to the whole idea of "science happens" and instead brings forth the more realistic: "science happens when it is the interest of someone with resources for that line of research to progress".

Thanks, but it's not my insight. There's a saying "follow the money" and that's what I had in mind when I wrote my reply. I simply added the bit that covers situations where money may not be the motivator.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#215

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

labawi wrote: post #157
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the themes in this thread is reminding people that it's not actually bamboo, it's a bamboo composite--sort of like plywood. I doesn't work without petrochemical glues. I think it's fairer to say your build is 40%-ish bamboo composite. When we're calling it bamboo we're doing that industry's greenwashing marketing for them. Cool guitar!

If the mentioned bamboo composite is 95% bamboo and 5% glue (going by comment from hwillis), isn't it fair to say it's 40%-ish bamboo? 5% glue is far from something like carbon composite, where most content is epoxy. Common wood surface treatment is probably more than 5%, yet we don't call it a wood composite. IMO, total surface sealant makes more of a material difference than 5% glue on the inside.

I appreciate the viewpoint, but we don't call plywood "wood" because it isn't wood. If we were to develop a metric, the % of mass of the finished product that isn't wood would be a reasonable one.

The problem with saying it's 38% bamboo is it implies it's in some meaningful sense made out of bamboo. It's not. There isn't a way to go in there and cut out a piece and have it be bamboo--unless it's really, really small (maybe). Whereas it's totally possible to take a piece of wood from an old piece of furniture, surface it four sides, and have essentially wood (albeit a little smaller).

I think also that you're a little off on two things: 1, common wood surface treatments are < 5%, and 2, composites vary but 60/40 fiber/resin by mass is a reasonable place to start.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#216

Post by TedShiller »

kleton wrote: post #150
TedShiller wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens to glue when you throw it away?

Phenol-formaldehyde thermoset breaks down into phenol and formaldehyde. It degrades a lot faster than polyolefins.

Does it "break down" sufficiently that you'd want the result in your tap water?

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#217

Post by TedShiller »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #197
TedShiller wrote: post #43

If you start with something that is natural and sustainable (for example, bamboo), and you add to it something that is neither (for example, glue), then you end up with something that is neither natural nor sustainable. Sorry.

That's not true. Chemicals are -everything-. Unless you think everything "artificial" is bad then I think you will be open to realizing just because something manufactured doesn't mean it's bad by default.

The question is, do you want it in your tap water? If not, you also don't want it in the environment.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#218

Post by mrlonglong »

jameshart wrote: post #212
mrlonglong wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My late father who was German used to say it meant progress through technology.

It’s a commonly offered translation but there’s a sense in which it doesn’t capture the same nuance. If Audi wanted to say ‘progress through technology’, why isn’t the slogan ‘Bewegung durch Technik’? Bewegung very much has the sense of ‘progress’, but also has a double sense of ‘movement’, both in the sense of physical movement as well as a social movement. All of which are strong connotations the English word ‘prog…

It could also be 'Forward through technology'

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#219

Post by eropple »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #203
eropple wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally right, but one thing I learned recently - hide glue isn't that much more expensive than the same manufacturers' PVA glues. (For folks who aren't familiar, though, animal glues aren't really substitutable for things like plywood; the ability to undo a hide glue joint is valuable in furnituremaking but not in plywood composition.)

And absolutely key in instrument making/repair. Hoof glue might be better for ply.

That makes sense. You're talking about a lot of glue for one panel, though, and at that point I would be worried about costing (and still more worried about delamination than with PVA). Plywood is weird when you think about it.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#220

Post by dredmorbius »

willvarfar wrote: post #13

A general question: how does forestry avoid degrading the soil? If you keep removing the plants that grow, rather than allowing them to rot and return the nutrients they sucked up during their lifetime back the soil, do the trees steadily grow worse until it is no longer profitable and you have to go grow trees somewhere else?

Depending on what trees are grown, and the specific ecology and geology, it can and does. However this typically occurs over several generations of planting, each of which are 2--4, or more, human generations.

James C. Scott's Seeing Like a State opens with a description of how "rationalised" scientific forestry in Germany lead to a precipitous decline in the health of the soil and ultimately yields of timber, but over the course of 150--200 years. He's largely citing Richard Plochmann, Forestry in the Federal Republic of Germany (1968), and Chris Maser, The Redesigned Forest (1988).

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