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Something special is happening in Barcelona

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Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#111

Post by GekkePrutser »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #38

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars…

> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars

Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars..

The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own green timeslot, they're supposed to turn when straight gets green but give way to crossing traffic. But drivers often don't check very well, I often see near misses.

Coming from the Netherlands the bicycle lanes there are really much better with their dedicated green lights, lanes everywhere (almost always in both directions) and separate crossings. They're also better marked and uninterrupted (in some barcelona streets they suddenly just stop or move to another side without clear indication). I definitely don't feel safe cycling in Barcelona. I mainly walk here and take the metro.

I hope the bicycle network will improve going forward as cars are excluded from the city more. They make a good effort so far but it's definitely not great :)

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#112

Post by AlotOfReading »

collegeburner wrote: post #95
AlotOfReading wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting Seattle has a better commute situation than Barcelona? Respectfully, that's insane. Moreover, large parts of the city were designed prior to motorized vehicles and encourage frequent mode mixing. High speed is simply not on the table for discussion. The choice is between low speed, low density car traffic, or mixed mode. The latter is clearly much better for neighborhoods and the city as a whole.

If there is no high speed how are people supposed to get in from out of the city in some timely fashion? You say better for neighborhoods and the city without considering all the outer neighborhoods that often house more people than the inner ones.

Barcelona has a functional public transit system, including fairly far reaching metros. It's pretty unusual to find a trip that's more than a hour at any time of day.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#113

Post by duskwuff »

mastax wrote: post #27
yokaze wrote: post #12

If you read this, or other things about reducing car traffic in Barcelona, one should keep the following in mind: https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/lafabricadelsol/en/noticia/... 6000cars/km² in Barcelona. San Francisco/Oakland metropolitan area has 4000/sq mi... 1540/km² Guttenberg, NJ has the highest in the US with 20,600/sq mi (8000/km²) Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.planetizen.com/node/45622%3...

Barcelona has a population density of 16,000/km², while the city of San Francisco has a density of 2,419/km².

> the city of San Francisco has a density of 2,419/km²

Where are you getting that number? Wikipedia has 7,194/km².

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#114

Post by nbzso »

c0llision wrote: post #96
nbzso wrote: post #76

[flagged]

Lmao, so people wanting children to be able to cycle safely to school is communism? >The risk of biking injuries is always present Lol. Because nobody was ever injured in a car before. What do you think are the major source of cycling injuries? It's collisions with motor vehicles. You fall off your bike and you'll probably scrape a knee. You get hit by a truck and it's near certain death. Cycling is NOT a dangerous a…

>Claus Schwab Not surprised to hear you mention this name, or Santa Claus as I like to call him. The new favorite go-to for conspiracy nuts nowadays.

Wow. Did you, just call me a "conspiracy nut"?:)

Are you seriously thinking that this stance will remove the logic and facts from my argument?

There is no Santa Claus, but WEF agenda and "collaboration" with governments and billionaires is real.

And it is not for your "common good".

It is marketed that way, for sure.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#115

Post by c0llision »

nbzso wrote: post #114
c0llision wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lmao, so people wanting children to be able to cycle safely to school is communism? >The risk of biking injuries is always present Lol. Because nobody was ever injured in a car before. What do you think are the major source of cycling injuries? It's collisions with motor vehicles. You fall off your bike and you'll probably scrape a knee. You get hit by a truck and it's near certain death. Cycling is NOT a dangerous a…

>Claus Schwab Not surprised to hear you mention this name, or Santa Claus as I like to call him. The new favorite go-to for conspiracy nuts nowadays. Wow. Did you, just call me a "conspiracy nut"?:) Are you seriously thinking that this stance will remove the logic and facts from my argument? There is no Santa Claus, but WEF agenda and "collaboration" with governments and billionaires is real. And it is not for your "…

Lol, what facts and logic? Your original comment contains none of these, just your own personal assertions.

literally listen to yourself, this article was originally about children cycling to school, now you are connecting this to the WEF conspiracy.

And yes it is a conspiracy, it's the same as all others where people make these vague and imprecise statements, like you did in your original comment, then take some actual facts and try to weave it all together into something malicious. Actually, this is literally what you are doing right now by taking this story literally about children cycling and weaving it into the whole WEF conspiracy.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#116

Post by milderworkacc »

senectus1 wrote: post #110

roads are expensive infrastructure, I don't know about Barcelona but in Australia the roads are paid for by the drivers (at least atm the fossil fuel drivers), how will the maintain and pay for new roads if they take them over with cyclists? for the record, I cycle, drive a hybrid and am looking to buy an electric car. I'm not singling out cyclists as a hate target. I'm genuinely curious how this is going to work.

Roads here aren’t really paid for by motorists at all, it all comes out of general revenue (local rates, state revenue and commonwealth grants where appropriate). Fuel tax is just another tax, same as the Medicare levy doesn’t actually fund Medicare.

The move to electric vehicles and bicycles does create a revenue shortfall, but that’s all it is - not any kind of structural issue that needs clever new thinking. Implement a per/km tax on cars or just whack up GST, it doesn’t matter.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#117

Post by nbzso »

c0llision wrote: post #115
nbzso wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Claus Schwab Not surprised to hear you mention this name, or Santa Claus as I like to call him. The new favorite go-to for conspiracy nuts nowadays. Wow. Did you, just call me a "conspiracy nut"?:) Are you seriously thinking that this stance will remove the logic and facts from my argument? There is no Santa Claus, but WEF agenda and "collaboration" with governments and billionaires is real. And it is not for your "…

Lol, what facts and logic? Your original comment contains none of these, just your own personal assertions. literally listen to yourself, this article was originally about children cycling to school, now you are connecting this to the WEF conspiracy. And yes it is a conspiracy, it's the same as all others where people make these vague and imprecise statements, like you did in your original comment, then take some act…

> And yes it is a conspiracy, it's the same as all others where people make these vague and imprecise statements, like you did in your original comment, then take some actual facts and try to weave it all together into something malicious. Actually, this is literally what you are doing right now by taking this story literally about children cycling and weaving it into the whole WEF conspiracy.

Seriously? Did you not read at all. I see this as a non-solution of the real problem. I see this as opportunity to be used as a cover story for public consent towards "hate cars" and "love bikes". I see this as creating a narrative which will serve well WEF agendas. And I know for a fact how media works and who is the real beneficiary. Al this are facts, all of my view-point about WEF is well embraced even from leftist people with common sense. The legitimate concerns are turned to conspiracy theory in a whim. This is the real danger.

As I mentioned this is very "useful" story, already running as an "example": https://www.npr.org/2021/10/22/1047341052/barcelona-bicibus-...

And here you can read about "the conspiracy" angle. https://theintercept.com/2020/12/08/great-reset-conspiracy/

Note: I don't agree with Klein's view on dangers of communism. She is on the spot for the logic behind - halfway solutions for a systemic crisis far beyond WEF agenda. And yes, I have a bias. I have lived in communistic regime and have suffered over "refusing the party line and established common good practices".

That is the root cause of my reaction. I see people trying to convince themselves that this "biking" thing is a solution of a problem. In actuality this creates one. Blocking traffic in a city creates traffic congestions in other spots.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#118

Post by jeffbee »

frereubu wrote: post #40

I had an idea similar to this, based on my experience of Critical Mass cycle rides in London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling) It was called "Cycle Pods", which would be mini-critical mass rides for commuters. You'd probably need between five and ten riders who cycle the same route each day at a roughly similar pace, so you could register with a route and see whose rides were similar to yours. Th…

Anything about a bicycle on the road just makes some drivers' heads explode. I always drive at or below speed limits in cities and the other day in Berkeley, California, a bicyclist was pacing me at 25 MPH on a state road and drivers behind us were going insane. Funniest thing I ever saw, to be honest.

That old Goofy cartoon about drivers losing their minds as soon as they get behind the wheel is completely accurate for the great majority of American drivers. We simply should not allow cars in our cities. I fear that American and its cities are going to be left far behind as global cities rapidly realize this and we're still bulldozing neighborhoods for new freeways. Many cities abroad are already way nicer than all American cities, and they are accelerating away from us. It's sad.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#119

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

pietrovismara wrote: post #82
throwaway984393 wrote: post #80

I can't wait to scroll down and read the comments from angry drivers who just want these damn kids to get out of the road so they can get to wherever they won't be able to park even faster. Edit: I was not disappointed.

Seriously. I feel like my health and my wellbeing are hostage of a mass of angry egocentric drivers who can't possibly conceive taking a bike ride or using public transportation. Given their aggressive and uncompromising approach, I feel the only way to make this work is to literally force it on cities through critical masses, basically using the same coin they use. They don't care about my health? I don't care about…

This attitude is partially why car drivers are so anti-anti-car people. You attribute such negative traits as egocentrism and anger to them and then insinuate they don’t care about your health. But the truth is that just about everyone outside of your friends and family doesn’t care about your health. It’s mere human nature.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#120

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #79
nbzso wrote: post #76

[flagged]

> Guys and girls. This starting to look exactly like communism Is this some kind of a joke I don't get? If you're serious tho, it sounds like a positive to me. > Cars are not the enemy They are. Most modern cities are an unlivable toxic mess thanks to the fact we based transportation on private cars. There is no clean tech that can sustain the large scale usage of cars we currently have. Even electric pollutes a lot…

>” They are. Most modern cities are an unlivable toxic mess thanks to the fact we based transportation on private cars.”

This is rhetorical hyperbole that undermines your position.

If cities were actually “unlivable” then people wouldn’t be living there and it would cease to be a city. Toxic is also an exaggeration.

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