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Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

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Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#331

Post by kiklion »

kmonsen wrote: post #289
skeletal88 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very bad for the rest of the world, and also for the US, since all the empty containers are stacking up there, then there aren't any empty containers available in China or anywhere else for exporters, so even getting your hands on an empty container can be very difficult or almost impossible, or they cost 2-3x more than usually.

If that is true the rates for empty containers should increase making it worthwhile for ships to bring them back again?

Elsewhere someone mentioned it’s cheaper to build a new container in China than to ship and empty one over from the US. Even if you are already sending the boat.

This sort of implies that it’s incredibly cheap to make the container, and/or it’s expensive to add that weight to the ship, and/or our ports are incredibly slow at loading empty containers onto ships.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#332

Post by Kye »

ilwu_member wrote: post #275

I am a member of ILWU 13. A couple thoughts after reading the comments: The zoning change is for TEU storage outside the port. The port itself was not subject to that rule. The Port of Los Angeles is a landlord and is not directly involved in operations. Private companies, such as APM, EverPort, and others, rent piers/berths and are responsible for the actual operations and logistics. Some speculation: recently I’ve…

TEU, for people like me who don't know shipping lingo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-foot_equivalent_unit

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#333

Post by analog31 »

mkl wrote: post #269
aerosmile wrote: post #72

Everyone's focused on Ryan's comments about stacking, and the subsequent win there. Amazing job, Ryan, and thank you Robert Garcia for being a man to take one on the chin (for this solution not coming from your team) and for then doing the right thing. I am seriously impressed by not seeing any NIH (not invented here) behavior here. But why stop there? Ryan suggested 5 courses of actions, and made it clear that we ne…

Does he mean negative feedback loops or positive feedback loops? Getting worse every day sounds like positive feedback, whereas negative feedback would keep things steady.

Doesn't matter, real feedback loops are complex. ;-)

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#334

Post by anonymouse008 »

ilwu_member wrote: post #275

I am a member of ILWU 13. A couple thoughts after reading the comments: The zoning change is for TEU storage outside the port. The port itself was not subject to that rule. The Port of Los Angeles is a landlord and is not directly involved in operations. Private companies, such as APM, EverPort, and others, rent piers/berths and are responsible for the actual operations and logistics. Some speculation: recently I’ve…

Question: who is paying demurrage on these containers? Has that practice been suspended?

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#335

Post by Kye »

Camillo wrote: post #268
Natsu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, isn't someone from the government supposed to be in charge of this? Shouldn't they be out there finding out what's happening? It seems odd that no one has tried this, yet as someone who has worked in a factory, I can easily believe that the absentee managers have no idea what the hell actually goes on among the workers. You need to spend significant actual time, to the point of working actual shifts, to get a c…

Let's not forget the media. Renting a boat and talking to people at the port to see what's going on should be right up an investigative journalist's alley. The Silicon Valley guy is doing the job of not just one power center, but two.

Perhaps the fourth estate needs the microphones currently stuck on a ship somewhere.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#336

Post by wrycoder »

jerry1979 wrote: post #176
aerosmile wrote: post #72

Everyone's focused on Ryan's comments about stacking, and the subsequent win there. Amazing job, Ryan, and thank you Robert Garcia for being a man to take one on the chin (for this solution not coming from your team) and for then doing the right thing. I am seriously impressed by not seeing any NIH (not invented here) behavior here. But why stop there? Ryan suggested 5 courses of actions, and made it clear that we ne…

For those who didn't see the 5 points, I've copied them below from here https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1451543776992845834 1) Executive order effective immediately over riding the zoning rules in Long Beach and Los Angeles to allow truck yards to store empty containers up to six high instead of the current limit of 2. Make it temporary for ~120 days. This will free up tens of thousands of chassis that right now…

Make it a port rule that container ships must be fully loaded with containers (full ones or empty ones) before leaving port, or they will be banned.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#337

Post by wrycoder »

mkl wrote: post #269
aerosmile wrote: post #72

Everyone's focused on Ryan's comments about stacking, and the subsequent win there. Amazing job, Ryan, and thank you Robert Garcia for being a man to take one on the chin (for this solution not coming from your team) and for then doing the right thing. I am seriously impressed by not seeing any NIH (not invented here) behavior here. But why stop there? Ryan suggested 5 courses of actions, and made it clear that we ne…

Does he mean negative feedback loops or positive feedback loops? Getting worse every day sounds like positive feedback, whereas negative feedback would keep things steady.

I’d recommend that he just say “feedback” and skip the adjective.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#338

Post by wrycoder »

kiklion wrote: post #331
kmonsen wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is true the rates for empty containers should increase making it worthwhile for ships to bring them back again?

Elsewhere someone mentioned it’s cheaper to build a new container in China than to ship and empty one over from the US. Even if you are already sending the boat. This sort of implies that it’s incredibly cheap to make the container, and/or it’s expensive to add that weight to the ship, and/or our ports are incredibly slow at loading empty containers onto ships.

Jack up the daily ground rate for empty containers until the market solves the problem and clears them out.

Edit: e.g. chop them, pack the result into containers, and ship it to Asia to use as raw materials for new containers.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#339

Post by anonymouse008 »

schainks wrote: post #323
ilwu_member wrote: post #275

I am a member of ILWU 13. A couple thoughts after reading the comments: The zoning change is for TEU storage outside the port. The port itself was not subject to that rule. The Port of Los Angeles is a landlord and is not directly involved in operations. Private companies, such as APM, EverPort, and others, rent piers/berths and are responsible for the actual operations and logistics. Some speculation: recently I’ve…

Is someone paying for ships to do this or are they doing their own calculations and realizing it’s cheaper for them to leave fast?

This is the question that ties into mine — if the economic incentives have changed (i.e. there is no penalty for renters of containers to not get containers back to their primary shipper) then this is a perfectly reasonable response to the change from Covid to today — i.e. the new game is moving the ship as fast as possible with no downtime. If the demurrage is still incurred, then there’s some other alternatives that do not appear to be completely without nefarious intent.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#340

Post by fy20 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #299
baybal2 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's cheaper to dump the container, and buy new one in China. Sounds absurd, but that's how it is.

Hmm. If anybody is sitting on an idea that needs used shipping containers, now might be the time to pick some up.

I looked into using them for construction as I am building a office / workshop, roughly the size of two 20ft shipping containers. As much as it may be glamourised on social media, it has a lot of limitations.

In my case it's actually cheaper and much more flexible to build it as you would a traditional building. I live 300 miles from the nearest port, so that doesn't help. I also looked into the container sized temporary buildings used on construction site, and they are made from scratch (not from old shipping containers).

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