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ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

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Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#41
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting suggestion! given that alas consumers of the world are expected to enjoy bundled finished products, it seems semi unlikely. so perhaps this suggests a great use case for stream seperators like the one posted a couple hours ago Cassiopeia[1]. ultimately i'd love for music to be more like html- an encoring of content that the user's agent then renders as it sees fit. having individual streams, or something…

> ultimately i'd love for music to be more like html- an encoring of content that the user's agent then renders as it sees fit. Yeah, that would be so nice. Imagine the cool stuff people would be able to do. Disable voice tracks for instrumental versions. Play video games that perfectly synchronize to the music. Make custom visualizers for each song featuring graphics perfectly synchronized to each instrument... I al…

Indeed! I produce music for fun using virtual synths, multi-layer sound libraries, audio plug-ins and MIDI combined in a software digital audio workstation (Cubase at the moment). I find it super enjoyable and despite not formally studying music, not reading traditional music notation nor being able to play any musical instrument well in real-time, through step recording to a MIDI multitrack timeline (and subsequent on-screen tweaking) I manage to create remarkably pleasing, quite commercial-sounding original music.

As an equally enthusiastic video hobbyist, I've long-wanted to create my own original visuals to accompany my music. Yet the "visual synthesis" tools I've played with seem to remain split into two extremes - essentially "too algorithmic / Geiss-like" on one end and "too complex and art-talent-thirsty" on the other (for example Blender 3D, AfterEffects). A similar gap existed in music tools 20 years ago but remarkable progress has been made in closing that gap empowering in-betweeners like me to achieve wonderful results with only hobby-level skills, time and budgets. Sadly, that stunning progress in democratizing music synthesis has not been equally mirrored in the visual synthesis domain. The visual side mostly remains polarized into DJ/VJ-centric real-time apps and pro-level video editing and 2D/3D rendering tools.

It's odd because the musical synthesis domain seems to have been unleashed by increasing access to dedicated hardware DSPs in the 90s followed by rapid, iterative 'software-ization' as general-purpose processors became capable of replacing DSPs (MMX etc). GPUs have followed a similar march down the curve of democratization but for some reason broad access hasn't unleashed a similar hobby renaissance on the visual synthesis side like it has for visual capture and editing with mobile/DSLR imaging and desktop video editing.

However, I still remain hopeful that perhaps the visual end of the digital synthesis revolution has only been delayed. I find encouraging signs in the real-time rendering and compositing capabilities of GPUs driven by game engines from the nascent efforts of Machinema a decade ago to, more recently, ILM using Unreal Engine to create remarkable visuals for the Disney/Star Wars series "The Mandalorian" using conceptually approachable live projection mapping techniques. The custom code ILM paid Unreal to add has since been bundled (unsupported) into all versions of the engine including the personal/hobby-use ones and garage experiments can already be found on YouTube.

As for providing more useful audio sources as input to the visual pipeline, there are millions of desktop music hobbyists ranging from Garagebanders on tablets and phones to DAW users on desktop. All of them are already capable of supplying separated, uncompressed multi-track audio stems (pre or post downstream effects like EQ/reverb) along with expressive metadata in the form of MIDI 2 notes and articulations. There are even a variety of standards across Windows, Mac, iOS and Android for real-time, multi-track transfer between applications within a device. For distribution formats, new consumer digital digital audio interfaces from HDMI 2.x on the interconnect side to lossless multi- and N-channel spatial audio standards on the encoding side are democratizing the necessary I/O capabilities.

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gag to this song[1] is a bit crass, but one of the visualization tools in particular has always caught my eye: the hexagonally-arranged note visualization. It seems to capture a number of chord relationships in a very intriguing and intuitive way. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hmwXThnqi0

Thought I recognized one of the viz methods, and the hexoganal representation of the chords may be based on this idea from Euler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnetz

I figured there would be mathematical foundations to it, and it would figure Euler is involved. Very neat!

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#44
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hated-by-nintendo Always surprises me just how out of touch this company is. Just finished reading that huge Twitter thread. That's just so sad.

Which huge Twitter thread?

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srfu4r

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#45
post #37

Not to be confused with the community-loved but hated-by-nintendo mod of smash brawl, Project M: https://pmunofficial.com/

Nintendo pisses off and alienates fans so much. They're going to get steamrolled by the Steam Deck and Nickelodeon All Stars if they're not careful. They don't listen or learn from their customers.

I... surely you're joking. The Steam Deck poses no serious threat to Nintendo.

It's not remotely possible for Steam Deck to have the sort of first-party integration Nintendo accomplishes around co-op games, multiple controllers in multiple configurations, motion controls, pairing, latency, suspend/resume...

Like, have you used a Valve product before? They're beautiful and inspiring but... when they work, it's still not Nintendo quality.

The vast, vast majority of Nintendo customers know nothing of game mods or competitive multiplayer or care about latency or netcode. I doubt the majority even play Smash or any fighting game.

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#46
post #13

Music visualization is really underdeveloped in my opinion. I've never seen anything I find impressive. The problem is it never really looks very much like the visualization relates to the music I'm listening too. Usually you just kind of see the rythm of the music at most. I want to see something where harmonies look like beautiful patterns, noise looks like noise , and perhaps you could even pick out individual ins…

Really really difficult, and maybe not possible for many years to come.

Someone recently posted a link to Terence Tao on mathematical notation. Much the same problem. Notation is hard. Indeed I reckon notation is one of the most difficult problems we have.

That said, visualising Music is kinda like musicalising Art. Possible but not necessarily useful. Synesthesia is one way to deal with it, but is hugely reliant on very human perception and kinda iffy (not knocking those who can experience synesthetically, more suggesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F).

A general theory of correspondence of meaning and notation is still unavailable, notwithstanding a vast amount of research in the field. If you can make any useful contribution at all you are worthy of historical recognition.

I've been thinking about this stuff for decades, and can only recommend Charles Saunders Pierce as a good beginning for the modern mind.

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#47
post #21
post #6

Everytime I've tried to run this it ends up crashing and being utterly unusable on Linux. I've been trying for about 15 years on different hardware. Nowadays I just use a webgl based visualizer.

What webgl visualizer do you use? I have trouble with ProjectM too.

https://butterchurnviz.com/

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#48
post #33
post #13

Music visualization is really underdeveloped in my opinion. I've never seen anything I find impressive. The problem is it never really looks very much like the visualization relates to the music I'm listening too. Usually you just kind of see the rythm of the music at most. I want to see something where harmonies look like beautiful patterns, noise looks like noise , and perhaps you could even pick out individual ins…

In fairness, projectm is literally built on 90s tech (Winamp’s milkdrop). For some reason around the early 00s peoples love for visualisations fell out of favour. Meanwhile clubs would still hire dedicated VJs and/or lighting guys so didn’t rely on math-based visualisations. Which meant fewer people contributing to developing cool new math. Worse still, the few industries left that did care about beat detection were…

> For some reason around the early 00s peoples love for visualisations fell out of favour

It didn't. Music companies effectively killed it because music visualization is a combination of derivative work and performance. So, copyright, licensing etc.

Can't find the relevant link though.

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#49

I've loved playing with this over the years - it's a great project. I've been to a couple music shows where the VJ had a serious setup with what looked like physical mixers with buttons, knobs, and dials, and some quite complex software going. Does anyone know how to learn about the state of the art in VJing?

VJ's tend to use multiple different apps and connect them using syphon (Mac) or spout (windows) to share textures. I've seen resolume (clip heavy content) and touchdesigner (node based "visual IDE" ) mentioned. Those are all big in the space and offer something unique.

I wanted to add https://www.synesthesia.live to that list. It has a ton of audio reactive content and the best audio reactivity in the space.

But the key really is in using other apps + syphon/spout to combine all the textures into unique content. Then manipulating that in something like touch designer.

Full disclosure: I'm one of the creators of synesthesia.live but use multiple apps, Touch Designer everyday.

Re: ProjectM – The most advanced open-source music visualizer

#50
post #13

Music visualization is really underdeveloped in my opinion. I've never seen anything I find impressive. The problem is it never really looks very much like the visualization relates to the music I'm listening too. Usually you just kind of see the rythm of the music at most. I want to see something where harmonies look like beautiful patterns, noise looks like noise , and perhaps you could even pick out individual ins…

I wanted something like this 4 years ago so I started writing a project called Drop [0] with the intention of making it possible to add custom visualizations through a plugin interface, providing plugin developers with tools such as beat detection, and a decent user interface. I added a lot of features and basically finished the interface but never got around to finishing the plugin portion.

[0] https://github.com/xNul/drop

You might be interested in this btw

https://delu.medium.com/a-perceptually-meaningful-audio-visu...

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