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.NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#31

Post by angelzen »

usui wrote: post #8

A hot-button issue gets corrected now, but then they continue to make subtler moves. Why say you love open-source if you keep the juicy bits of Visual Studio Code closed-source? More like you love open-source... for making money. Microsoft is a big company with changing microcultures all the time. They alone as a whole should not take credit for their open-source endeavors. In general, big contributor names should be…

Inexorably, the locus of making money moves from using one's skill and ability to build software to skimming rent off enormous capital investments: billions of ad impressions, billions of e-commerce transactions, millions of cloud cpus,

Somebody built awesome software and dares charging money for it? Bring on the tar and feathers!

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#32

Post by S04dKHzrKT »

fabian2k wrote: post #25

This feels more like an internal turf war inside Microsoft. The general open source strategy with .NET Core and VS Code has been running long enough that I don't think it's just a smoke screen. But there's probably plenty of different interests inside Microsoft that are at least partially in conflict. The Azure side probably doesn't care about selling Visual Studio, but they care about developer mindshare and reputat…

I don't remember how old this is org chart graphic is, but it seems like it still applies.

https://i.imgur.com/qZ0RDYw.jpg

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#33

Post by bradfitz »

S04dKHzrKT wrote: post #32
fabian2k wrote: post #25

This feels more like an internal turf war inside Microsoft. The general open source strategy with .NET Core and VS Code has been running long enough that I don't think it's just a smoke screen. But there's probably plenty of different interests inside Microsoft that are at least partially in conflict. The Azure side probably doesn't care about selling Visual Studio, but they care about developer mindshare and reputat…

I don't remember how old this is org chart graphic is, but it seems like it still applies. https://i.imgur.com/qZ0RDYw.jpg

Original source: https://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#36

Post by blibble »

ethbr0 wrote: post #22
holografix wrote: post #9

I just wrote a comment on the other post about this. I wonder how this decision was made _behind the scenes_. Either some negotiation happened and the Visual Studio team got some concessions (smaller target?) or it was mandated from the top. Both alternatives do not bode well for the VS team.

At this point, VS needs to be put under VSC management. You saw the same crap with Office vs everything new.

yep, modern Visual Studio is a terrible experience end-to-end

it takes at least 3 minutes to start, the UI designer takes 30+ seconds to appear, and starting your process for debugging takes 10+ seconds

every single autocomplete takes a few seconds to appear

even opening a 100 line .c file takes 10+ seconds, and they KNOW its bad because it pops up a dialog with a progress bar!

this is all on a azure "cloud" instance with 8 cores, 64gb of ram and SSD, with a clean install every 2 weeks

not to mention nearly all of the dialogs are as awful and exactly the same as they were in VS6 (e.g. run configurations)

and it's super expensive

meanwhile VSC is snappy and free, and the JetBrains IDEs of 2011 run rings round it

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#37

Post by Hamcha »

If they want .NET to really go mainstream outside Windows, they have to back off pushing for VS so hard.

So far, they have been more convincing in getting me back into .NET than they have getting me back into Visual Studio, locking .NET features inside VS would just alienate me from both.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#38

Post by MauranKilom »

Maybe I'm naive, but I fully buy the explanation of "we decided to not have it in the OSS version due to constrained resources" (if I'm parsing the discussion correctly). That was evidently not the smartest move, but attributing it to malice is taking it quite a step further.

Change my view.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#39

Post by oaiey »

fabian2k wrote: post #25

This feels more like an internal turf war inside Microsoft. The general open source strategy with .NET Core and VS Code has been running long enough that I don't think it's just a smoke screen. But there's probably plenty of different interests inside Microsoft that are at least partially in conflict. The Azure side probably doesn't care about selling Visual Studio, but they care about developer mindshare and reputat…

There are people on record that it was the Azure division head Scott Guthrie who gave permission to open source ASP.NET Core (which at the time was part of Azure). Later the asp.net team merged with the .net team and brought the open sourcing with them.

VS has no place anymore. The velocity and mindshare is with VS Code. VS with its visual designers had its place .. but desktop is dead and Xamarin competes with frameworks without costly IDEs.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#40

Post by oaiey »

MauranKilom wrote: post #38

Maybe I'm naive, but I fully buy the explanation of "we decided to not have it in the OSS version due to constrained resources" (if I'm parsing the discussion correctly). That was evidently not the smartest move, but attributing it to malice is taking it quite a step further. Change my view.

It was done.

It was first done and presented in dotnet watch.

The community contributes a lot, why not letting them maintain it.

VS fights a uphill battle to stay relevant.

It empowers VS Code devs to do visual stuff. The only thing VS is still good in.

... Got bored of writing more.

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