I had assumed this would be a VST plug-in so you could integrate everyone into (for example) an Ableton Live set with whatever other audio/midi manipulation you want.
Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
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Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#12Hey, are you using Opus for audio? I remember the whole reason Opus was so cool, is that it was the first codec that combined low latency with high quality. Most voice chat software uses Opus nowadays so I'm surprised to hear existing solutions are so bad.
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#13I had assumed this would be a VST plug-in so you could integrate everyone into (for example) an Ableton Live set with whatever other audio/midi manipulation you want.
Using audio devices directly makes it possible for any audio application to use it, not just applications supporting VSTs. Makes it more flexible, not less. A VST could be built on top of the current solution, but if it was done vice-versa, it wouldn't.
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#14I think https://endlesss.fm got the approach to jamming over the internet right.
Instead of trying to reduce latency (which you simply cannot do beyond speed of light) endlesss implements a shared “multiplayer” 8 track looper.
Jammers add layers to the loop, which has a clock and supports sync via ableton live, external audio input, etc.
Plus, every addition to the looper is saved/versioned. You can move backwards through loops and export the audio stems. Its a great creative tool, and quick way to build on ideas with friends.
It’s way better than any of the live internet jamming software I’ve used, by far.
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#15I don't get these realtime collaborative streaming services. Streaming at home via wifi is already crappy, how should this ever work with more distance?
Don't use WiFi? Ethernet has way less latency. Combine with everyone being in the same city/region and using fiber network and latency should be really good. Otherwise, find friends that you have visibility with and setup a P2P WiFi via antennas/radios, you'll get insanely good latency.
Yeah, I shouldn't use tech that is basically used all over the world for convenient internet connections to access a new tech that is basically built on top of that.
Sounds reasonable...
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#16I think https://endlesss.fm got the approach to jamming over the internet right. Instead of trying to reduce latency (which you simply cannot do beyond speed of light) endlesss implements a shared “multiplayer” 8 track looper. Jammers add layers to the loop, which has a clock and supports sync via ableton live, external audio input, etc. Plus, every addition to the looper is saved/versioned. You can move backwards th…
Endlesss is cool - in fact I know the founder. It's a different experience though - when it's live you feel someone else's presence compared with offline collab.
Up to you what you prefer.
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#17I had assumed this would be a VST plug-in so you could integrate everyone into (for example) an Ableton Live set with whatever other audio/midi manipulation you want.
Using audio devices directly makes it possible for any audio application to use it, not just applications supporting VSTs. Makes it more flexible, not less. A VST could be built on top of the current solution, but if it was done vice-versa, it wouldn't.
Exactly.
I have a prototype VST plugin which pipes the audio from the DAW into the application.
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#18Thanks for making this. It looks worth giving a try. Some friends and I get together roughly weekly using Jamulus. We're playing mostly jazz standards. We have gotten latency down into the 20 ms range, when we are all in the same town. That's the ping time. Add another ~ 40 ms that seems to be eaten up by my local computer and wired home network. With that said, online jamming is hard work . I'm the bassist. Fortunat…
When the server is in the same town, it's not hard for me to get 10-15 ms total latency in Jamulus. 60 ms is a lot - borderline unplayable. I get better latency than that over WiFi.
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#19Hey, are you using Opus for audio? I remember the whole reason Opus was so cool, is that it was the first codec that combined low latency with high quality. Most voice chat software uses Opus nowadays so I'm surprised to hear existing solutions are so bad.
Yes Opus - the other benefit is that it can handle a degree of missing packets which is very handy.
Re: Show HN: Low-latency jamming over the internet
#20Thanks for making this. It looks worth giving a try. Some friends and I get together roughly weekly using Jamulus. We're playing mostly jazz standards. We have gotten latency down into the 20 ms range, when we are all in the same town. That's the ping time. Add another ~ 40 ms that seems to be eaten up by my local computer and wired home network. With that said, online jamming is hard work . I'm the bassist. Fortunat…
> Add another ~ 40 ms that seems to be eaten up by my local computer and wired home network. Maybe you have a weak computer? Having 40ms being eaten up by your local network would be absolutely bananas, the latency should be closer to 1-3ms if not lower. If I ping 8.8.4.4 it's not until the switch outside the city I live in that the latency comes up to above 10ms, so something sounds wrong/broken in your setup if it'…
If you are on Windows you need to use an ASIO soundcard ?