An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion • Hacker News Board

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#221

Post by gonzo41 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #16

torben-friis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the behavior of the largest tech companies is a cause or an effect of their size. Is unethical behavior pushing companies to the top of the food chain? Or is it that other companies feel more ethical simply because they don't have as many chances to engage in unethical behavior? If it's the latter, all the push to split the companies is for nothing and we should just consider "ethics at scale" to be an un…

I suspect its less size then being at or near the top. If you're up and coming, the best strategy is to just make a better product. You know whose at the top and you can adapt your product to where they are weak. If you're at the top, i suspect the optimal strategy is to try and cut your competition off at the knees before its a threat. I think we see this across many things. Just look at all the messed up things sta…

It's cartel behavior, they are trying to control every facet of the environments they live in. Hence why there are no competitors and all the upcoming platforms get acquired and absorbed.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#222

Post by bsenftner » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

tfehring wrote: post #217

bsenftner wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a Capitalist, the only possible deal is a profitable one. However, to be profitable, the arangement between participants has to be unfair. It is only through an unfair exchange of goods and services is a profit produced. So it imperative the other parties believe they are getting a fair deal, otherwise they would not participate. So, it is unmentioned while required that the Capitalist control the information of t…

Unfair in the sense that the buyer pays more than the cost of goods sold, but trade often increases utility for both parties anyway. People happily pay $1,000/year for homeowners insurance even though the expected losses and expenses are only $970 or whatever, because they don’t want to be on the hook for a new home if theirs burns down, and they’re generally better off for doing so. And they may buy it from for-prof…

I am talking about the relationship between the employer and the employee. That is the unfair relationship which Capitalism is dependent and is imperative they control the information of their participants.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#223

Post by worrycue » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

zksmk wrote: post #207

worrycue wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a slight tilt on all pavements in Las Vegas that slowly push you towards the building, Wouldn’t that cause rain water to flow into the casinos?

I don't know if what that person wrote is true, but drains exist and it's not like Vegas gets a lot of rain, it's literally in a desert, floods aren't really a big concern.

Drains are typically between the pavement and the road to drain water from both of them no? Hence roads have a slight convex curve to them and pavements slope towards the road.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#224

Post by revscat » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #141

willvarfar wrote: post #5

I remember when google was the shining light of “be nice company” that we all dreamed of working for, at odds with the evil that was M$crosoft. And, from reading all the “why I left google” posts and hearing about them leaving China, the old google of 20 or even just 10 years ago was the good or even just a better google. With how google went from “do no evil” to this, with how Facebook has always been profits over e…

I don't know if it's been studied or written but I'd bet solid money that every group / company starts nice, trying to differentiate from old rusty and corrupt only to become what they despised because that's just survival instinct and "efficiency" (short term, lazy). Same for people, new ones come fresh with ideals only to become sleazy when their spot is secured. It's a balance between knowledge of the old versus n…

The universal emergent behavior of capitalism. It may not be by design, but is as certain as gravity. Capitalism is wholly incompatible with morality, unless you definite morality itself to be capitalism.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#225

Post by bagacrap » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

p2t2p wrote: post #27

eecc wrote: post #12

I wonder how that code managed to stay secret so many years. How did they keep all the mass of data, the tickets, the user stories and pitch decks from being spilled online and get publicly dressed down? I guess that’s the one single major threat to effectively WHF: the need for maximum security secrecy and infrastructure control.

Well, look at me. I’m an immigrant. My wife’s useful skills would probably give her salary of about 5th of what we need, so she doesn’t work and takes care of the kid, house and engages in her hobbies, like making custom teddy bears. If I were put on a project like that I can easily imagine being quiet about it as I put well being of my family waaaay above any ethics. I can imagine that a lot of people do. So the onl…

above any ethics? You'd kill someone to support your family? Surely not. So there's somewhere you draw the line, you just don't think what Google's doing is that bad.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#226

Post by notsureaboutpg » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

tjpnz wrote: post #112

willvarfar wrote: post #5

I remember when google was the shining light of “be nice company” that we all dreamed of working for, at odds with the evil that was M$crosoft. And, from reading all the “why I left google” posts and hearing about them leaving China, the old google of 20 or even just 10 years ago was the good or even just a better google. With how google went from “do no evil” to this, with how Facebook has always been profits over e…

Of FAANG I've still got a soft spot for Netflix. Even if they're selling my data there's less potential for harm given that they're not a glorified advertising company.

I think the content of the things Netflix produces might be the most harmful to our society overall. Thinking of things like Cuties, etc.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#227

Post by im3w1l » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #131

im3w1l wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not been secret but hardly common knowledge either.

I'm not sure what more you can ask for than Whatsapp putting a descriptive text about encryption not being applied if use the export functionality, right next to the button to enable export functionality.

I didn't ask for anything. I just don't think most people know.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#228

Post by hcurtiss » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #199

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I don’t care that FB puts profits over people. That’s what I expect. They are a public corporation. FB’s board has a legal obligation (fiduciary responsibility) to make money for shareholders. Capitalism may suck, but it’s the law. Speaking of the law, Google’s abuses listed in this thread are what gall me. In Gulliver’s travels, the Lilliputians don’t strongly punish a common thief. You can just build a…

Fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits is a myth. It’s something that businesses hide their unethical behavior behind, but there’s no law that requires it according to the US Supreme Court. https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-co...

True, but there definitely is a fiduciary duty, and shareholder derivative lawsuits for breach of that duty are definitely a thing. They are usually substantiated by irresponsible decisions producing low returns. The analysis is complicated, but in the end, the more poorly the company you are managing performs due to your deliberate decisions, the more likely you are to elicit a shareholder derivative suit. Generally speaking, the best way to keep your shareholders happy is to make them money. In my view, this is as it should be. I’d rather executives in public companies not use my money to pursue their own personal moral crusades. They can use their own money to do that. As can I.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#229

Post by jasonladuke0311 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

zksmk wrote: post #207

worrycue wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a slight tilt on all pavements in Las Vegas that slowly push you towards the building, Wouldn’t that cause rain water to flow into the casinos?

I don't know if what that person wrote is true, but drains exist and it's not like Vegas gets a lot of rain, it's literally in a desert, floods aren't really a big concern.

Floods are a huge concern in Vegas.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#230

Post by agumonkey » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

revscat wrote: post #224

agumonkey wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's been studied or written but I'd bet solid money that every group / company starts nice, trying to differentiate from old rusty and corrupt only to become what they despised because that's just survival instinct and "efficiency" (short term, lazy). Same for people, new ones come fresh with ideals only to become sleazy when their spot is secured. It's a balance between knowledge of the old versus n…

The universal emergent behavior of capitalism. It may not be by design, but is as certain as gravity. Capitalism is wholly incompatible with morality, unless you definite morality itself to be capitalism.

I don't think capitalism is root here, it's an amplifier but humans have the same problem. Maybe any complex ~intelligent system even ?