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Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

reuters.com

31–40 of 115 posts

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#31
A lot of questions about responsibility come from this case.

If autopilot was following the car too close would the driver be responsible for not taking action? How much trust is a driver allowed to put in autopilot?

I also wonder how much data other cars collect. As far as I know most cars collect a lot of data you don't know about.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#32
post #21

What if not all sensor data is accurate or reliable? For example their new cars have no radar and therefore the distance is just an assumption of the AI model and can be wrong. It would be pretty bad to rely on unreliable data for the justice system. If they want to use all data I assume some form of interpretation should be done by the Tesla to avoid false positives or false negatives. Especially in crashes where FS…

Radar data is also an assumption, way weaker than cameras.

Cars radar sensors are not the F22 ones, they are very simple, limited and it is not the sky in which metallic objects are foreign and there is empty space everywhere.

The world on earth surface is full of metallic objects with very complex shapes and reflections everywhere(and you have military safety standards, my uncle got cancer(and died) after working with military radars as an engineer and working so close to them). My uncle could not prove the connection but if thousands of people start getting cancer after those devices are common it will be much easier to prove.

With cameras you have millions of points array for cheap that lets you differentiate things much better than simple radars do.

Imagine that you integrate all the colors that go in a camera to a single color. That is what you have with radar sensors.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#34
post #31

A lot of questions about responsibility come from this case. If autopilot was following the car too close would the driver be responsible for not taking action? How much trust is a driver allowed to put in autopilot? I also wonder how much data other cars collect. As far as I know most cars collect a lot of data you don't know about.

You can change how close you want AutoPilot to follow (between 1 and 3 car-distances) the car in front of you.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#36
post #21

What if not all sensor data is accurate or reliable? For example their new cars have no radar and therefore the distance is just an assumption of the AI model and can be wrong. It would be pretty bad to rely on unreliable data for the justice system. If they want to use all data I assume some form of interpretation should be done by the Tesla to avoid false positives or false negatives. Especially in crashes where FS…

I think it’s a job for Dutch courts to determine, not the manufacturer.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#37
post #34
post #31

A lot of questions about responsibility come from this case. If autopilot was following the car too close would the driver be responsible for not taking action? How much trust is a driver allowed to put in autopilot? I also wonder how much data other cars collect. As far as I know most cars collect a lot of data you don't know about.

You can change how close you want AutoPilot to follow (between 1 and 3 car-distances) the car in front of you.

Would be interesting to know if the issue here that the driver selected 1 (or 2 or 3) car-distances, and the Tesla followed at 0.25 or 0.7 or something

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#38
post #21

What if not all sensor data is accurate or reliable? For example their new cars have no radar and therefore the distance is just an assumption of the AI model and can be wrong. It would be pretty bad to rely on unreliable data for the justice system. If they want to use all data I assume some form of interpretation should be done by the Tesla to avoid false positives or false negatives. Especially in crashes where FS…

That comment doesn't make sense at all. If anything you want to know what the Tesla AI was thinking so you can compare to reality (like Traffic cameras etc.), which might find fault with the driver assist system. Letting Tesla "interpret" the data before handing it over is completely backwards as they are an involved party on the accident.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#39

Ouch, so much for the argument that self-driving is safer if the car was tail-gating another car and didn’t have the reaction speed to brake.

While the software might have failed here, so did the human driver who failed to stop the unsafely operating autopilot. And this very problem could be fixed with the next software upgrade.

The more appropriate question if the autopilot is worth it if it has to be carefully watched by humans.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#40
post #22

https://archive.md/SQpJz

The original article in Dutch https://www.forensischinstituut.nl/actueel/nieuws/2021/10/21... and google translate to English https://www-forensischinstituut-nl.translate.goog/actueel/ni...

Thanks! And the conference publication with technical details: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355202701_Reverse_e...
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