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An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

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Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#31

Post by londons_explore »

The bits about the ad auction are all what I expected as a user...

Obviously they can adjust their fee up or down to further their interests. Obviously they have the right to set the 'floor' auction price, and can set it to maximize profits. Obviously they can take on business from Facebook, and limit how much they take on if they like.

It doesn't include stuff about their recent switch to first price auctions, which make many of these complaints moot. It's really hard to make a first price auction unfair.

Why was any of this a surprise?

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#33

Post by flyinglizard »

mrweasel wrote: post #24
polytely wrote: post #10

Google seriously needs to be broken up into small pieces or disolved entirely. Their leadership just cannot be be trusted and the internet would be better off without them around.

Unlike Microsoft, where at least some of the business units could do pretty well on their own, if the company was broken up, I doubt the same would be true for Google. Other than search and ads, I doubt other part would do particular well. Breaking up Google would result in a lot of people losing their job. I’m not arguing that you’re wrong in the idea of breaking up Google, but I doubt it will happen.

I can see at least five entirely separate units with very little synergy:

1. Search + Maps

2. GSuite + Gmail

3. GCP

4. YouTube

5. Android + Chrome

Each can probably support its own P&L sheet, other than perhaps the last (not sure about that one).

Such a move would surely limit innovation (I can’t see these smaller entities doing things like mobile ASIC development, although if TPU is under Search it would continue), but increase competition, especially in the ad market.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#34

Post by colordrops »

I just can't get worked up over this. Advertising is at best amoral, and inherently a shady activity. I've always assumed that advertising is a cut throat industry full of sharks. This doesn't really come as a surprise that google, the king of advertising, would partake in cutthroat activities in a cutthroat industry full of sharks to dominate and extract maximum value. So they acted like sociopaths among a society of sociopaths, so what.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#35

Post by capableweb »

mrweasel wrote: post #24
polytely wrote: post #10

Google seriously needs to be broken up into small pieces or disolved entirely. Their leadership just cannot be be trusted and the internet would be better off without them around.

Unlike Microsoft, where at least some of the business units could do pretty well on their own, if the company was broken up, I doubt the same would be true for Google. Other than search and ads, I doubt other part would do particular well. Breaking up Google would result in a lot of people losing their job. I’m not arguing that you’re wrong in the idea of breaking up Google, but I doubt it will happen.

> Other than search and ads, I doubt other part would do particular well. Breaking up Google would result in a lot of people losing their job.

This is exactly why companies should be broken up. They can currently afford doing a lot of anti-competitive stuff just because another department is profitable while the anti-competitive methods/departments won't. That people would lose their job shouldn't be a consideration as they can surely find jobs elsewhere that won't exploit the public like Google have been proven to do here.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#36

Post by heavyset_go »

mrweasel wrote: post #24
polytely wrote: post #10

Google seriously needs to be broken up into small pieces or disolved entirely. Their leadership just cannot be be trusted and the internet would be better off without them around.

Unlike Microsoft, where at least some of the business units could do pretty well on their own, if the company was broken up, I doubt the same would be true for Google. Other than search and ads, I doubt other part would do particular well. Breaking up Google would result in a lot of people losing their job. I’m not arguing that you’re wrong in the idea of breaking up Google, but I doubt it will happen.

That means Google is strangling innovation and market efficiency by offering unsustainable products that prevent profitable businesses from entering those markets.

Some people might lose their jobs at Google, but a healthier market will allow competition to hire for actually sustainable businesses. The benefits of increased innovation and competition for consumers makes breaking companies like this up worthwhile on their own.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#37

Post by capableweb »

flyinglizard wrote: post #33
mrweasel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Microsoft, where at least some of the business units could do pretty well on their own, if the company was broken up, I doubt the same would be true for Google. Other than search and ads, I doubt other part would do particular well. Breaking up Google would result in a lot of people losing their job. I’m not arguing that you’re wrong in the idea of breaking up Google, but I doubt it will happen.

I can see at least five entirely separate units with very little synergy: 1. Search + Maps 2. GSuite + Gmail 3. GCP 4. YouTube 5. Android + Chrome Each can probably support its own P&L sheet, other than perhaps the last (not sure about that one). Such a move would surely limit innovation (I can’t see these smaller entities doing things like mobile ASIC development, although if TPU is under Search it would continue),…

> Such a move would surely limit innovation [...] but increase competition

Wouldn't increasing competition also increase innovation as more companies can actually enter the market with new ideas? Sure, the innovation at Google itself might go down, but that should hardly be an argument against solving their anti-competitive behavior.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#38

Post by ttiurani »

torben-friis wrote: post #7
willvarfar wrote: post #5

I remember when google was the shining light of “be nice company” that we all dreamed of working for, at odds with the evil that was M$crosoft. And, from reading all the “why I left google” posts and hearing about them leaving China, the old google of 20 or even just 10 years ago was the good or even just a better google. With how google went from “do no evil” to this, with how Facebook has always been profits over e…

I wonder if the behavior of the largest tech companies is a cause or an effect of their size. Is unethical behavior pushing companies to the top of the food chain? Or is it that other companies feel more ethical simply because they don't have as many chances to engage in unethical behavior? If it's the latter, all the push to split the companies is for nothing and we should just consider "ethics at scale" to be an un…

It's about shareholder value added. A public company or a VC-backed private company can focus on making creative nice widgets and services for only a limited time before growth inevitably stalls. After that (unless the management can and wants to screw over their owners) they will need to look elsewhere for more profits.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#39

Post by capableweb »

richardfey wrote: post #32

The biggest findings in this thread are (for me) these two: - gTrade and Bernanke program - WhatsApp backups not encrypted on Drive

> - WhatsApp backups not encrypted on Drive

Hasn't this been clear since long time ago? For as long as I can remember, the message on the backup screen for Whatsapp on iOS has said that backups are not encrypted.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#40

Post by curiousgal »

colordrops wrote: post #34

I just can't get worked up over this. Advertising is at best amoral, and inherently a shady activity. I've always assumed that advertising is a cut throat industry full of sharks. This doesn't really come as a surprise that google, the king of advertising, would partake in cutthroat activities in a cutthroat industry full of sharks to dominate and extract maximum value. So they acted like sociopaths among a society o…

It's silly but the only reason I can't get worked up over this is because it was presented in a Twitter thread. I just can't take anything presented in batches of x characters seriously.
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