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Artificial muscles robotic arm with full range of motion [video]

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Re: Artificial muscles robotic arm with full range of motion [video]

#71
post #10

This guy is a great engineer, I’ve been following his stuff for a while now. But there are unfortunately several fundamental limits which mean this type of system will likely never reach human level performance in a real world system. I work in robotics, specifically compliant and modular actuators, similar to the ones in the video. As I see it, (and many others in the field) One of the biggest issues in robotics is…

I don't see why electric motors are not backdriveable enough. Boston Dynamics' Spot uses electric motors with harmonic drive gearboxes (or some other backdriveable transmission) as an example of this. Similarly, series elastic actuators are very capable of giving the characteristics you deem necessary to work alongside humans albeit with lower bandwidth than the harmonic drive gearboxes.

You’re spot on with the harmonic drive motors. They do have good backdriving and low backlash, which is great. I certainly don’t mean to say that there is no place for electric servo motors in robots, they are fantastic for many applications, especially if you need precision and accuracy in movement. And the Spot (along with many copycat robots) make great use of them.

But the problem remains that there is still a severe trade off between speed, force and backdriving. The Spot really doesn’t have that high of a max force it can generate, and no where near that of a similarly sized dog. Additionally, the motion produced by the kinematics system it uses it relatively simple with far fewer degrees of freedom than a real dog.

The general consensus in the field is that if you want to have a robot which can do everything a human can do, you need to at least match the degrees of freedom a human has in motion. It would be very difficult to fit 100+ harmonic drive servos into a robot. Of course controlling all of this effectively is extremely difficult and that’s often why robots like spot use vastly simplified kinematic models, because it makes the equations go from near impossible to solve to just hard.

series elastic actuators are promising and I have high hopes for their use in the future. I have some colleagues who work with them. The limitations there are more to do with complexity and finding ways to dynamically tune the force impedance of the springs.

Re: Artificial muscles robotic arm with full range of motion [video]

#72
post #10

This guy is a great engineer, I’ve been following his stuff for a while now. But there are unfortunately several fundamental limits which mean this type of system will likely never reach human level performance in a real world system. I work in robotics, specifically compliant and modular actuators, similar to the ones in the video. As I see it, (and many others in the field) One of the biggest issues in robotics is…

What do you think of Festo's air muscle system, or air muscles in general? I don't work in the field, so my opinions are that of a layman, but I've been impressed with what I've seen in their videos.

Festo has a good product with its pneumatic muscles, but the same problems apply to them as it does to fluidic types. Complexity and the trade offs with force, frequency and range of motion.

I suspect the Festo muscles will end up in mostly industrial products which need simple, linear motion, and weight and efficiency don’t matter as much. Eg manufacturing equipment and active vibration damping systems.

Would love to be proved wrong on this however.

Re: Artificial muscles robotic arm with full range of motion [video]

#73
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short answer: yes. Long answer: I think that the more minds there are working on this (or any other interesting) problem, the more progress will be made. And we shouldn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough. The field of robotics, and especially soft robotics like this, is so new and uncharted that individuals tinkering in their garage can and have made real advances for the field. That said, really good…

> There is no robot hand in the world that can do that simple task. Is the technology dealing with interfacing with the brain good enough, even if on the arm side it's not?

Presently no, the brain computer interfaces are at least an order of magnitude less capable than they need to be for this. But the team at neuralink is making Great progress in this area and I have high hopes for the next few years.

Re: Artificial muscles robotic arm with full range of motion [video]

#74
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think of Festo's air muscle system, or air muscles in general? I don't work in the field, so my opinions are that of a layman, but I've been impressed with what I've seen in their videos.

Festo has a good product with its pneumatic muscles, but the same problems apply to them as it does to fluidic types. Complexity and the trade offs with force, frequency and range of motion. I suspect the Festo muscles will end up in mostly industrial products which need simple, linear motion, and weight and efficiency don’t matter as much. Eg manufacturing equipment and active vibration damping systems. Would love t…

Thanks for taking the time to answer, I appreciate it.

Re: Artificial muscles robotic arm with full range of motion [video]

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your appeal is to the "cult of science." Science is a moving target. Hydraulics involves materials known as hydraulic fluid. Material science is in its infancy. Your appeal is nothing more than to pessimism and the edifice of cocksure.

Nice one.

As my senior, you should have a bit more tact instead of outgassing petty sarcastic quips. I think the baby boomer generation has actually become somewhat of an ironic label because these people never really grew up, effectively remaining emotionally stunted babies in perpetuity. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this scientific theory.
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