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Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#551

Post by bongcloud420 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #344
andrei_says_ wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t remember voting on laws related to police immunity or them carrying weapons or anything allowing them to act as if they have a permission to kill. Could you provide some examples of anything on the ballot that influenced police behavior?

That is entirely dependent on your local voting system, not every place in the US has citizen initiatives on the ballot AFAIK. But it's a representative democracy anyway, so you vote for polices by who gets your vote. Sure, a lot of people just vote party line. But a lot of local elections are non-partisan.

so, zero examples

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#552

Post by atatatat »

DantesKite wrote: post #493
kingcharles wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably won't have time. I had a loaded gun pointed at my head and told not to touch my phone. Had every reason to believe they would have fired.

Why did the police point a gun at your head?

United States

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#553

Post by atatatat »

chimeracoder wrote: post #499
Ikatza wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I have a gesture programmed in Nova Launcher to disable biometrics with a pinch. The system allows you to do many more things than iOS, just not put of the box.

> Not really. I have a gesture programmed in Nova Launcher to disable biometrics with a pinch The original statement was > most modern operating systems have built in features to quickly disable them on demand A custom-made gesture using a third-party launcher is not built-in (to say nothing of whether that's accessible or feasible for the vast majority of Android users).

All that matters is the result.

Most users would be okay with having these features only available through the Apple App Store.

Instead, the result is none of those features on their phone.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#554

Post by wolverine876 »

giantg2 wrote: post #527
wolverine876 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "both sides" should come together to support reforms that are universally protective When one side doesn't do that, it's not a both sides issue.

The first half of that quote (omitted) provides important context that is missing here. The conversation and showing the "other" side why and how it could benefit them, as well as addressing any concerns they have about any one-sided proposal, is vitally important to a healthy and productive process - the main point that I was trying to make. If we just blame everything on the "other" side, we will drift further apar…

> The conversation and showing the "other" side why and how it could benefit them, as well as addressing any concerns they have about any one-sided proposal, is vitally important to a healthy and productive process

That is great, but has a requirement: Both sides operating in good faith. That's just not happening now and hasn't happened in many years. We need to deal with that reality or keep suffering dire consequences, including a possible end of democracy.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#555

Post by pulsarmx »

wolverine876 wrote: post #517
marcosdumay wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I live in a country with 4 times more homicides than the US after adjusting for population. Our laws state very clearly that the police does not get much extra immunity either (although, corruption gets in the way there), and our courts have no trouble at all to discard any piece of information the police acquires while they have a gun pointed at somebody's head. I really don't understand how the US justice…

> I live in a country with 4 times more homicides than the US after adjusting for population I didn't know there was such a place?

Can't tell if this is genuine bewilderment, or just more of the usual "USA is full of dangerous murderers" meme to dunk on the country as a whole, but just in case:

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

The USA has 4.96 murders per 100,000 inhabitants. 93rd in the world out of 230 countries or territories, below the global average of 6.2 and well below the average in the Americas of 16.3. It's also below the African average of 12.5.

CAF and Puerto Rico are the major territories with a figure closest to 4 times the US, and Puerto Rico is 20th on the list. Higher than Puerto Rico are 18 territories in the Americas, and 2 in Africa.

Of the 10th most populous countries in the world, the US is 5th and lower than Brazil, Nigeria, Russia, and Mexico. However, it _does_ have the highest rate of the 3, 4, and 5 most populous countries (Brazil is the 6th most populous, and with a murder rate of 27.38, more than 5 times the US rate).

Of its neighbours, Canada's figure is 1.7 (lowest in the Americas), while Mexico is at 29.07, 13th highest in the world.

In the Americas, only 4 countries or territories have lower rates than the US: Chile, Martinique, Aruba and Canada. On the other hand, 45 other countries or territories have a higher murder rate.

My own country is at almost 6 times the US rate, too, btw.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#556

Post by atatatat »

kingcharles wrote: post #540
BingoAhoy wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind going into detail about the right violations lawsuit please? I'm very interested in how you had success and what were the specific violations. I'm very sorry to hear how your life got turned upside down for a victimless felony. Makes me sick we cage people for some fabricated rule invented by some out of touch legislators.

I think I filed about 60 cases in total. So, off the top of my head... one that is still ongoing is that newspapers are banned inside the Cook County Jail for "security" reasons. You actually have a Constitutional right to access newspapers under the 1st Amendment, but that doesn't stop an agency from blocking this right and then making you sue them. The primary reasons given by detention facilities for blocking news…

Would you mind?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#557

Post by rsj_hn »

pulsarmx wrote: post #555
wolverine876 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in a country with 4 times more homicides than the US after adjusting for population I didn't know there was such a place?

Can't tell if this is genuine bewilderment, or just more of the usual "USA is full of dangerous murderers" meme to dunk on the country as a whole, but just in case: According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... The USA has 4.96 murders per 100,000 inhabitants. 93rd in the world out of 230 countries or territories, below the global average of 6.2 and well below the average in the America…

Yeah, if you want a soundbyte explanation of why the US is a carceral state (which it really is), then it's because we have the expectations for law and order of a small Swiss village, but the criminality of a Brazilian port city (exagerrated for humorous effect, but not really).

That schizophrenia between demands for law and order, and the reality of law and order, is why we lock so many people up and have fairly tough policing.

One option is to accept that hey, the government can't really stop all this crime, so let's not investigate or prosecute that much. This is the approach taken by the latest crop of liberal DAs. And it's been a disaster for local communities.

That's also when you start seeing stores with their own armed guards, and armed gated communities as the wealthy privatize security for themselves -- and the poor are subject to a lot of violence. I remember visiting the Phillipines and seeing men with shotguns outside basically normal stores and in shopping malls.

But hey, you don't have government jails filled with people and the police are a lot less visible. So, there is an upside, it's not necessarily a bad approach as long as we are willing to tolerate private security engaging in private violence against criminals.

But what you can't do is pretend that we should have Swiss levels of incarceration while at the same time having a much larger criminal class and a completely different society.

Fun Fact: In Switzerland, if you leave your windows open during the winter, people will call the cops on you (for wasting energy). It's a much more rules-following society that would drive most Americans nuts.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#558

Post by KronisLV »

kingcharles wrote: post #264

This happened to me. The police wanted my password and refused my right to silence, wouldn't let me call a lawyer. I wouldn't talk. Then they threatened my wife and I gave up my password to stop them from hurting her. The password was suppressed by the court, but they let the police use it anyway because one of the officers (with no formal computer qualifications) testified he could have broken 2048-bit AES encryptio…

> Make sure you always use a password on your devices though. Biometrics are not protected by the 5th Amendment in the USA as the police can legally force your finger onto a touchpad or hold your face in front of a camera.

This seems kind of crazy to me. If passwords being private are okay, why should the powers that be allowed to treat biometrics any differently, at least in the context of unlocking devices? Otherwise, what's to prevent them from intimidating, threatening or torturing you until you give up your passwords as well?

To me, that's just a blatant abuse of power either way and it feels like there should be another amendment to your constitution concerning data privacy.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#559

Post by jobigoud »

KronisLV wrote: post #558
kingcharles wrote: post #264

This happened to me. The police wanted my password and refused my right to silence, wouldn't let me call a lawyer. I wouldn't talk. Then they threatened my wife and I gave up my password to stop them from hurting her. The password was suppressed by the court, but they let the police use it anyway because one of the officers (with no formal computer qualifications) testified he could have broken 2048-bit AES encryptio…

> Make sure you always use a password on your devices though. Biometrics are not protected by the 5th Amendment in the USA as the police can legally force your finger onto a touchpad or hold your face in front of a camera. This seems kind of crazy to me. If passwords being private are okay, why should the powers that be allowed to treat biometrics any differently, at least in the context of unlocking devices? Otherwi…

Using biometrics as password is kind of crazy. Biometrics are login. They say who you are, not some secret you know.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#560

Post by BingoAhoy »

kingcharles wrote: post #540
BingoAhoy wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind going into detail about the right violations lawsuit please? I'm very interested in how you had success and what were the specific violations. I'm very sorry to hear how your life got turned upside down for a victimless felony. Makes me sick we cage people for some fabricated rule invented by some out of touch legislators.

I think I filed about 60 cases in total. So, off the top of my head... one that is still ongoing is that newspapers are banned inside the Cook County Jail for "security" reasons. You actually have a Constitutional right to access newspapers under the 1st Amendment, but that doesn't stop an agency from blocking this right and then making you sue them. The primary reasons given by detention facilities for blocking news…

Thank you for taking the time.

Retaliation for reaffirming rights. What a lovely justice system...

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