Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads • Hacker News Board

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#51

Post by iqster » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 6:47 PM UTC

AlexMuir wrote: post #48

mgkimsal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Apple don't entirely - ipad 1 vs ipad 2. They could've waited another 6-9 months for a camera (and the ipad2 camera really isn't all that hot anyway). Apple doesn't put out gold 100% of the time. A lot of people waited on ipad 1 for v2 because of the things it didn't have (camera, etc) But... perhaps closer to your point, what the ipad v1 did, it did very well. Better to leave a feature out altogether than do…

My view is entirely the opposite - I'm amazed at how well Apple nailed the first iPad. Aside from processing power (which is really just a factor of time), the only improvement on the iPad 2 was a camera.

I concur. The first iPad was ridiculously well done in my opinion. However, one should remember that it was essentially the same software on the iPhone and iPod Touch.

Consider the folders thing. Or background tasks. Apple usually releases things that work. I'm shocked how rare this is.

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#52

Post by NEPatriot » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 6:49 PM UTC

commandar wrote: post #27

I think the TouchPad is a cautionary tale that exemplifies something Apple does right: Don't ship broken hardware. I have a tech journalist friend who knew I was extremely interested in the TouchPad prior to launch, and let me play with his review unit for a bit. I was ready to drop $500 on one at launch, and walked away crushingly disappointed. The software clearly wasn't ready and with the product launch only a few…

Unfortunately, most big corporations still judge progress by scheduling and budgeting performance. Did we meet the schedule? Yes! Did we stay under budget? Yes! This is a paper victory.

Nobody asks "is the product ready to ship to customers?".

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#53

Post by jackson71 » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 7:05 PM UTC

RexRollman wrote: post #38

j_col wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep they are very suspect, and just so happen to be right on the verge of HP publishing their revenue figures, so may be some market shenanigans at play.

I guess we'll know if HP only talks about shipped unit and not sold, or activated, units.

It's a conspiracy!

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#54

Post by phpnode » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 7:09 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #39

Osiris wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amazing that people haven't learned the Apple lesson yet. Apple is doing well specifically because it doesn't release a product until it's perfect. They put a lot of thought and effort into every aspect of every device. Why is it that companies like HP think that getting it out the door is more important that putting out a polished product? Just look at the white iPhone 4. Apple wouldn't release it until it…

I'd say Apple don't entirely - ipad 1 vs ipad 2. They could've waited another 6-9 months for a camera (and the ipad2 camera really isn't all that hot anyway). Apple doesn't put out gold 100% of the time. A lot of people waited on ipad 1 for v2 because of the things it didn't have (camera, etc) But... perhaps closer to your point, what the ipad v1 did, it did very well. Better to leave a feature out altogether than do…

the ipad 1 has a hole in the frame that fits a camera (http://www.ipadforums.net/ipad-hacking/3730-ipad-has-room-ca...) they could probably have shipped it at launch, but maybe they knew they'd have to hold something back for ipad2.

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#55

Post by msbarnett » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 7:26 PM UTC

iaskwhy wrote: post #40

Osiris wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amazing that people haven't learned the Apple lesson yet. Apple is doing well specifically because it doesn't release a product until it's perfect. They put a lot of thought and effort into every aspect of every device. Why is it that companies like HP think that getting it out the door is more important that putting out a polished product? Just look at the white iPhone 4. Apple wouldn't release it until it…

Maybe they are reading too much Hacker News and the "ship ship ship" we preach over here. I know I have heard some companies thinking like that without realising it's not the best strategy for every company.

I don't think Apple really does anything different than what HN preaches. The best way to do "ship ship ship" well is to cut your feature set to the absolute bone, even if that means your initial launch is with just one single feature, as long as that one is polished enough and works well.

This is basically Apple's modus operandi; they'll take the hits from the nerds on not having every feature under the sun in return for being able to entice people with a small, well chosen set of features that "just work".

The HP's, Acer's et al are stuck in the mindset that they simultaneously need to shoe-horn in every idea they can think of while "ship ship ship"ing by throwing the product out the door as an unfocused, half-baked mess.

Aggressive curation of your feature set is a powerful strategy for nearly every company.

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#56

Post by tjakab » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 7:28 PM UTC

bigwally wrote: post #35

canistr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's the same thing with the way they sell laptops or phones. Why leave dumb units lying around? Why would anyone ever buy a device that they haven't tried? Best Buy (as well as other stores) need to have well-functioning devices turned on and available for customers to try. Additionally, they need their employees to go around and reset the devices to ensure a proper functioning system instead of the ones bog…

Even going to Best Buy to try a unit does next to nothing. Pretty much everything that they sell has a flat battery, is stuck on a screen or suffering some other issue. Except of course for the Apple display. All working. All looking good. All the time.

I'm going to guess that Apple's contract with Best Buy probably has specific requirements on how their products are displayed in every store.

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#57

Post by commandar » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 7:41 PM UTC

iaskwhy wrote: post #40

Osiris wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amazing that people haven't learned the Apple lesson yet. Apple is doing well specifically because it doesn't release a product until it's perfect. They put a lot of thought and effort into every aspect of every device. Why is it that companies like HP think that getting it out the door is more important that putting out a polished product? Just look at the white iPhone 4. Apple wouldn't release it until it…

Maybe they are reading too much Hacker News and the "ship ship ship" we preach over here. I know I have heard some companies thinking like that without realising it's not the best strategy for every company.

Software and hardware are totally different ballgames. With software, if you ship and you find that your product needs major changes, you iterate and you're not really out of anything.

Ship bad hardware? Well, you end up with things like partners demanding you take back a quarter of a million unsold units.

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#58

Post by WiseWeasel » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 7:51 PM UTC

phpnode wrote: post #54

mgkimsal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Apple don't entirely - ipad 1 vs ipad 2. They could've waited another 6-9 months for a camera (and the ipad2 camera really isn't all that hot anyway). Apple doesn't put out gold 100% of the time. A lot of people waited on ipad 1 for v2 because of the things it didn't have (camera, etc) But... perhaps closer to your point, what the ipad v1 did, it did very well. Better to leave a feature out altogether than do…

the ipad 1 has a hole in the frame that fits a camera ( http://www.ipadforums.net/ipad-hacking/3730-ipad-has-room-ca... ) they could probably have shipped it at launch, but maybe they knew they'd have to hold something back for ipad2.

Or perhaps the software side (FaceTime, iMovie) for the iPad wasn't ready yet, and they didn't want to release a half-baked solution; or it could simply be that the performance of the solution on iPad 1 hardware was unsatisfactory.

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#59

Post by neild » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 7:52 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #28

commandar wrote: post #27

I think the TouchPad is a cautionary tale that exemplifies something Apple does right: Don't ship broken hardware. I have a tech journalist friend who knew I was extremely interested in the TouchPad prior to launch, and let me play with his review unit for a bit. I was ready to drop $500 on one at launch, and walked away crushingly disappointed. The software clearly wasn't ready and with the product launch only a few…

Amazingly, webOS/palm got a do-over, in the form of HP buying them. "We're too small to compete" was the Palm motto towards the end, and HP buying them was seen by the faithful as a way of "getting it right" - more money and resources behind them, they'll be able to really get webOS out there. And they did the exact same stuff they'd done two years earlier. Announce and briefly demo a product at start of the year? Ch…

Amazingly infuriating to watch company after company claim to want to be a player in the mobile/tablet space, and fail continuously against Apple. It's far less that Apple's doing so much right, but everyone else keeps getting it so wrong, even with successful competitors to copy (this isn't revolutionary groundbreaking stuff any more, launching a tablet).

It isn't easy to make a successful tablet. Apple made it look easy, but it really isn't.

Apple came into the tablet market with:

- A core OS that's had over 20 years of work put into it.

- A touch UI layer with five years of development.

- A large developer ecosystem primed and ready to start making software for the new platform.

- A worldwide online software store with a gigantic existing customer base. (Do not estimate the difficulty of making it possible for developers anywhere in the world to sell software to customers anywhere in the world without forcing anyone to jump through the hoops of international tax law!)

- An online media store selling music, movies, and TV shows.

- A brand new ebook store.

- A worldwide network of physical stores to demo and sell the new devices.

You can't build that overnight. Apple has spent over a decade making smart decisions and putting themselves into the position where they are today.

Re: Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads

#60

Post by neuroelectronic » Wed, Aug 17, 2011, 8:31 PM UTC

Jabbles wrote: post #50

dmix wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people still don't care about or want tablet computers; they care about and want iPads I've seen this many times when I try to explain to normal people what I do for a living. When I explain we create tablet apps, I get blank stares. If I say we create iPad apps, they reply "oh I saw the commercial for those". iPads are mainstream. Tablets in general, not so much.

Couldn't that be a symptom of other tablets not being competitive, rather than the cause?

yes and no. Going back to the MP3 analogy, their were many MP3 players that were much better deals on paper; a fraction of the cost for more memory. But they didn't have a scroll wheel or iTunes, so consumers found them to be cheap knock-offs.