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Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

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Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting that sort of money is quite hard You could start a trust with ~1M in assets and if you avg 8% growth a year (taking into account management fees) you'd have 1B in 90 years just through compounding.

At which point you will probably need closer to 100B due to inflation, if the dollar is still relevant. Also you're likely dead.

If my math is right it would take roughly 120 years at a 2% inflation rate: 1 * 1.08^x = 1000 * 1.02^x

x=~120

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#602

Go to a big legal firm that's been around for at least a few hundred years. With them, set up a trust with a sufficient endowment to be run indefinitely (barring total societal or economic collapse), with the mission of maintaining this specific website in accessible format (including updates and format shifts as necessary). It will be expensive, but this general structure is already used by various organizations wit…

can't believe this isn't the top post

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#603
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acid free paper is a big improvement, but it's not gonna last 500 years. It's expected to last 200 years. Archival acid-free paper -- paper with cotton added to it -- can last up to 1000 years, but be prepared to pay $2.50 for 1 page[1], so a 400 page book will cost you $1000 for one copy, just for the paper in the book. This type of archival paper might be useful for important contracts or deeds, or legal documents.…

Cancelling is an online-driven social phenomenon that has existed for- a decade, maybe? Rather odd to view all of human civilizational progress through the lens of one overexposed, extremely online trend.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an interesting article online a few years back, can't find it now. It claimed that humans can't make anything that will last more that 16 million years. This includes any kind of nuclear pollution. Sure we might get lucky like Jurassic fossils, but not intentionally.

My favorite weird theory is the "Siluran hypothesis," which states that our industrial revolution was not the first. There are some events in sediment that look like what our industrial revolution will look like. (many millions of years ago, so yes, reptiles)

Yes.

Trying to grasp a time span of one million years feels impossible, in the context of development of culture and technology.

It seems quite unlikely to me that we are the first such development on this rock.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#608
Gotta put my product manager hat on - is the problem you are trying to solve "how do I keep a site up 500 years" or "how do I keep my writing and pictures around for my descendents to see in 500 years."

Because if it's the later, the website seems to be a terrible solution to me for a lot of reasons. Figure out what kind of paper lasts the longest and print your stuff on that for posterity.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#609

Go to a big legal firm that's been around for at least a few hundred years. With them, set up a trust with a sufficient endowment to be run indefinitely (barring total societal or economic collapse), with the mission of maintaining this specific website in accessible format (including updates and format shifts as necessary). It will be expensive, but this general structure is already used by various organizations wit…

How expensive do you think this would be? It would be fun to estimate the potential costs over 500 years.

I would never run this kind of website on free hosting (e.g. GitHub pages.) I think it's dangerous to assume that this business model will continue to exist for the next 500 years. It would be much safer to pay the ~$0.02/mo to store and serve your files from an AWS S3 bucket. A $5/mo DigitalOcean VPS would be safer, but probably overkill. I really like the idea of paying $0.24 per year to cover the exact costs of electricity, storage, servers, and bandwidth. These costs might continue to decrease over time, but they can never be 0 (e.g. Landauer's principle [1].)

I don't know how to estimate the cost of a domain name over the next 500 years. It's definitely not going to stay $10 / year forever. Maybe registrars will start charging higher prices or taxes based on the market value of your domain. Or some company will really want to take over your domain. Like Nissan [2] for example.

Ethereum name service (ENS) [3] could be interesting. Pricing [4]:

* 5+ character .eth names: $5 in ETH per year * 4 character .eth names: $160 in ETH per year * 3 character .eth names $640 in ETH per year

The world seems to have decided that names are worth roughly $10/year, for a single planet with a population of 7.9 billion humans. We'll probably be a multi-planet species at some point during the next 500 years. It's hard to imagine what the universe will look like 5,000 or 50,000 years from now. Imagine there's trillions of sentient beings living throughout the universe, and a "universal internet" (even if information still takes many years to propagate throughout the universe.) Maybe names will become far more expensive.

I think the safest option would be to choose a random string of letters and numbers: 2g39pz6jygjd.com + 2g39pz6jygjd.eth. It would still point to a page that includes your name and all of your content, so you'd still be indexed by search engines. And it's very unlikely that someone will start a company called "2g39pz6jygjd" and try to file a trademark.

This kind of random name would probably continue to be worth around $10/year, or perhaps up to $100 / year. It might continue to cost around $0.20 per year to host your static website on AWS S3 (or similar). Bandwidth would be interesting to think about.

Let's say you're trying to keep a blog running forever. Probably a good idea to keep it very simple and use a very basic CSS them, so each page could be around 20 kb. Serving your page to 50,000 visitors would require 1 GB of bandwidth. But let's prepare for a worst case scenario: Everyone on earth visits your website once a day for a month.

7,900,000,000 * 29.53 days (average number of days in a month) * 20 kB = 57709.5 TB. (That's actually way more than I expected! I find it really hard to understand just how many people there are in the world.)

I used this AWS calculator [6]:

* 0.25 GB monthly storage

* 7,900,000,000 * 29.53 days = 233,287,000,000 requests (let's say we serve a single HTML page that includes inline CSS.)

* 57709.5 TB transfered

S3 Standard cost (monthly): $134,680.98 USD. Or $1,616,171.76 per year.

That was just an exercise to figure out the maximum possible cost of hosting a simple web page. It was a fun tangent but we can ignore all of that.

Let's just say it could cost up to $100 per year. Assuming an extremely safe withdrawal rate of 0.5%, you'll need to ask your trust to invest $20,000 (100 / 0.005) in a mix of ETFs, bonds, cryptocurrencies, gold, etc. That should guarantee that you can continue paying for web hosting through the next 1,000 recessions, nuclear wars, ice ages, etc.

[1] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Landauer%27s_principle

[2] https://nissan.com

[3] https://ens.domains

[4] https://docs.ens.domains/frequently-asked-questions

[5] https://aws.amazon.com/s3/pricing

[6] https://calculator.aws/#/createCalculator/S3

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also add the social element - if you want your kids and grandkids to be able to read it, pass custody of the website well before you die (perhaps in a will?) and tell as many friends and family as you can. I know I would happily administer a deceased friend's website until i could no longer myself.

But who will administer the site after you pass? It's much harder to justify the administering effort, when you never even knew the original guy.

Depending where you’re at in life, you could probably raise your kids to understand that keeping the site online is paramount.

Similar to those wise families that teach their kids to take care of their elders.

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