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The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

pluralistic.net

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Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#51

Cory Doctorow is ignorant of economics and competition policy. It’s frustrating to see his thoughts shared here so often. There is no credible economic theory of firm “power seeking”. What’s more, you don’t need such a theory to explain what’s going on here. If you want to explain why Google paid so much for Motorola, you can do so via the various defects in intellectual property law. All large firms are at least occ…

Doctorow seemingly believes most economists are full of crap so isn't going to recite whatever theory you subscribe to. He discusses his view of economics in this twitter thread here: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1450136949327425537?s=20

It's funny to read that thread. There is stuff I agree with there! And more stuff I disagree with or is totally unfounded.

- First of all, I have no interest in or patience for Ayn Rand. I don't know any economists who take her remotely seriously. All of the American economists I know are on the left politically. So are most of the non-American economists I know. There are, of course, prominent exceptions to the rule.

- I don't know why we are accused of having no theory of prices? I teach that in week 2 of my principles of microeconomics class. I don't teach inflation b/c I don't teach macro, but they do have theories.

- We don't assume people have perfect information, with the possible exception of using it as a very simple benchmark case on our way to something more complicated and realistic. Incomplete/imperfect information has been a central feature of all theoretical and empirical work in the profession for more than 40 years now.

- He shares a post about concentration in meatpacking. I agree that we have allowed many markets to become too concentrated, including meatpacking! I am in favor of stronger antitrust enforcement! My entire sub-field is empirical studies of imperfectly competitive industries.

- Skipping several tweets (there is really too much here to argue with every point...) we have talked about the CORE textbook in my department. Most of us put it on our syllabi. It is free, after all. As a comment on Doctorow's take: every Principles textbook mentions the environment because every Principles textbook talks about externalities. I spend a week on the subject.

Again, I confirm my impression that he doesn't know anything about economics or competition policy, but studying it more seriously would be to his benefit, especially in commenting on technology and regulation issues.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#52
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patent portfolios aren't typically used as a defense against trolls. Since they're overwhelmingly non practicing entities, they're typically not infringing on anything.

It's a defense against trolls acquiring those patents and leverage to force license on transfer deals with other large cos.

Trolls have no problems finding patents, it's not that limited of a pool that you can suck them all up. And sure about MAD with big companies, but that's orthogonal to my comment on trolls.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#53
A general comment about patent trolls ("NPEs") business model. I actually heard a presentation by a (former) troll about this.

They buy a patent which looks good, i.e. applies broadly, hasn't been litigated unsuccessfully, has a few more years to run, ideally has been tested by an unsuccessful IPR. The whole goal is to make back the investment in a few years. Contrary to what someone said, there is not an infinite supply of those.

Then they pick out easy targets to sue, i.e. companies which just settle without much fuss. Those settlements don't have to be for large amounts, and typically are not.

I should correct the word "sue." Often there is no lawsuit. If a defendant is formally notified that they might be sued, they can seek a Declarative Judgment (DJ) in a friendly venue, which affirms that they're not infringing. The troll does not want to be DJ'ed. So they just threaten without really threatening ("hey, you might want to take a look at this patent!").

Those easy targets build up a war chest, which the troll then uses to go after the bigger and harder targets. These are companies that will fight back, often with an IPR.

So the moral is: make yourself a hard target. Never roll over for those people.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#54

The thing I think Doctorow is missing is the motivation at the engineering level to get a patent. There is very minimal strategizing between corporate attorney's about how the patent might be strategic. If something is patentable, the engineering teams will often pursue a patent mostly motivated from a bragging rights perspective. It's a great way to give recognition to engineers. Most of Google's/Microsoft's portfol…

The patents are usually at least nominally related to a product, and the allocation of engineering to product is very intentional. You're correct that there's some loss in that process, and lots of funny business/perverse incentives besides, but engineers aren't generally patenting totally random things.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctorow seemingly believes most economists are full of crap so isn't going to recite whatever theory you subscribe to. He discusses his view of economics in this twitter thread here: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1450136949327425537?s=20

It's funny to read that thread. There is stuff I agree with there! And more stuff I disagree with or is totally unfounded. - First of all, I have no interest in or patience for Ayn Rand. I don't know any economists who take her remotely seriously. All of the American economists I know are on the left politically. So are most of the non-American economists I know. There are, of course, prominent exceptions to the rule…

Perhaps theory of prices has a totally different meaning from "leftist" contexts? They operate under imperatives and assume there is some sort of ideal formulae that ignores that it makes the Knapsack Problem look log(n).

"What the market will bear." is a nonanswer to them even though it is accurate because reality is messy with human psychology more so.

Of course from mainstream economics perspective their concepts of value and exploitation are between fallacious (universal global value because labor is assumed as the basis) to pants-on-head levels of crazy (the idea that a fair trasaction becomes unfair when the buyer is able to reap later profit).

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#56

Cory Doctorow is ignorant of economics and competition policy. It’s frustrating to see his thoughts shared here so often. There is no credible economic theory of firm “power seeking”. What’s more, you don’t need such a theory to explain what’s going on here. If you want to explain why Google paid so much for Motorola, you can do so via the various defects in intellectual property law. All large firms are at least occ…

> There is no credible economic theory of firm “power seeking” How is the theory of market power combined with everything else we know not that? [1] It seems obviously in the firms interest even if their primary motive were still profit since it ensures increased rates of profit (modulo risk of a regulatory smackdown.) 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_power

The idea of powerseeking is an outright reification of power that conflates definitions by assuming the worst possible light. Influncing the market doesn't mean complete control over production - that is an obsession of Marx's ideological descendants. Just influncing it in either direction for any reason works. Providing it cheaper than market rates or convincing others to pay more also qualifies.

If everyone in a village economy is capable of growing their own food on the side for about the equivalent of say $15/bushel averaged out but you have the specialization, mechanization to grow it for $1/bushel margins. Even if you wind up the only one growing food others still have their fields.

If we call increasing efficiency "power seeking" then the term has lost any and all meaning and only serves to confuse and make the most mundane actions sinister by interpreting them in the most conspiratorial light. If you drink commodity coffee in the morning you actively to exploit the rural poor, if you go with more expensive fair trade coffee you are engaged in conspicious consumption of veblem goods while people starve, and if you just drink water you are trying to starve the rural poor.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of that is correct, but patent trolls are only after money. They like to settle quickly for a fairly small amount, and move on. An effective counter-strategy is to resist them (with IPRs, especially) because that ties up their resources. As for big companies suing smaller ones: citations (in the mobile space), please?

You're asking for citations to things that happen behind closed doors. "Big company pressures little company into a buyout/capitulation" is bad PR for big company, so part of the buyout/capitulation is to sign the NDA.

There are still conspiracy theory leaker mathematics in play here. Facebook can't so much as send an internal email complaining about leaks making somebody's job harder without it being trumpted as yet another great wrong they committed.

It is within a space of possibilities but a sustained lack of evidence decreases the probability of it being so as numbers increase. It is possible that a given person drove drunk without being caught. But if they drove drunk everyday throughout many different towns and villages? Less likely.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no credible economic theory of firm “power seeking” How is the theory of market power combined with everything else we know not that? [1] It seems obviously in the firms interest even if their primary motive were still profit since it ensures increased rates of profit (modulo risk of a regulatory smackdown.) 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_power

The idea of powerseeking is an outright reification of power that conflates definitions by assuming the worst possible light. Influncing the market doesn't mean complete control over production - that is an obsession of Marx's ideological descendants. Just influncing it in either direction for any reason works. Providing it cheaper than market rates or convincing others to pay more also qualifies. If everyone in a vi…

What definitions do you believe are conflated? What "worst possible light" do you believe is being assumed? I don't think influencing the market means complete control over production. I don't know how you see that idea as inherited from Marx though and if it were, it would be fallacious to reject it on those grounds. To be clear though the authors that Cory is citing reject Marx in the first pages of their book and I myself have no interest in Marx other than historical.

We don't call increasing efficiency "power seeking." Yes, I think many anti-capitalists would respond to that by saying that "there is no ethical consumption in capitalism" and that these problems cannot be solved by consumer choices.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#59
post #27
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely submitted the URL with the hash-mark and fragment[0], so HN must strip it off. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_fragment

Yes, that's what happened. Sorry! I've put it back and will try to prevent this from happening again.

Given that there are sites that use fragment identifiers to encode state, and users may be including fragments mistakenly (eg. click a link in a Wikipedia page's TOC, scroll to the top, share link), figuring out what to do with some random URL submission that includes a fragment isn't straightforward.

In THEORY, when the fragment is (semantically?) significant, the site could dynamically alter the link rel="canonical" value to include the fragment such that you could check whether to keep it or not, but in practice I think that canonical links are intended for web crawler deduplication and so nearly always strip fragments off.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#60
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what happened. Sorry! I've put it back and will try to prevent this from happening again.

Given that there are sites that use fragment identifiers to encode state, and users may be including fragments mistakenly (eg. click a link in a Wikipedia page's TOC, scroll to the top, share link), figuring out what to do with some random URL submission that includes a fragment isn't straightforward. In THEORY, when the fragment is (semantically?) significant, the site could dynamically alter the link rel="canonical…

We're indeed replacing links with canonical URLs now, as of maybe a month ago. But we were stripping anchors from URLs even before that, with a list of exempted sites. I've added pluralistic.net to that list now. If there's a better way to do it, I'm interested.
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