Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 615 posts

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#491

Post by kingcharles »

gknoy wrote: post #438
q1w2 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he said he would unsolder the chips off the circuit board and put them onto another board ... The judge allowed the testimony and believed it. I've experienced similar issues with judges. When evidence hinges on something very technical - they generally allow it and place the burden of arguing it on the defense. ...which often allows any other evidence gotten by that means. ...and even if/when it's struck out - the…

> $700/hr attorneys How many hours of attorney-work should one expect to budget for?

On a criminal case? Potentially hundreds. Personally I've put in several thousand hours in legal research towards my case. The deeper you research the more you find. I'm eight years in and only recently did I find some binding case law to support some of my arguments about the police misconduct.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#492

Post by kingcharles »

efleurine wrote: post #467
kingcharles wrote: post #264

This happened to me. The police wanted my password and refused my right to silence, wouldn't let me call a lawyer. I wouldn't talk. Then they threatened my wife and I gave up my password to stop them from hurting her. The password was suppressed by the court, but they let the police use it anyway because one of the officers (with no formal computer qualifications) testified he could have broken 2048-bit AES encryptio…

Good to know. I'm am getting rid of biometrics asap

Yeah, it's a pain-in-the-ass to always have to enter a code to open your phone, but I'd rather suffer that than have the cops hold my face in front of the phone to open it up.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#493

Post by DantesKite »

kingcharles wrote: post #393
bleachedsleet wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you do use biometrics and ever find yourself in a sticky situation most modern operating systems have built in features to quickly disable them on demand. iOS, for example, allows you to quickly disable Face/Touch ID by holding the side+any volume button for two seconds and then quickly tap the side button again when the shutdown slide appears.

Probably won't have time. I had a loaded gun pointed at my head and told not to touch my phone. Had every reason to believe they would have fired.

Why did the police point a gun at your head?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#494

Post by Ikatza »

chimeracoder wrote: post #457
bleachedsleet wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you do use biometrics and ever find yourself in a sticky situation most modern operating systems have built in features to quickly disable them on demand. iOS, for example, allows you to quickly disable Face/Touch ID by holding the side+any volume button for two seconds and then quickly tap the side button again when the shutdown slide appears.

> iOS, for example, allows you to quickly disable Face/Touch ID by holding the side+any volume button for two seconds and then quickly tap the side button again when the shutdown slide appears Android unfortunately doesn't have anything like this enabled by default, and what it allows you to enable is much more limited. Lockdown mode[0] has to be enabled manually (it's hidden deep in setting that most people won't no…

Not really. I have a gesture programmed in Nova Launcher to disable biometrics with a pinch. The system allows you to do many more things than iOS, just not put of the box.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#495

Post by kingcharles »

q1w2 wrote: post #432
kingcharles wrote: post #264

This happened to me. The police wanted my password and refused my right to silence, wouldn't let me call a lawyer. I wouldn't talk. Then they threatened my wife and I gave up my password to stop them from hurting her. The password was suppressed by the court, but they let the police use it anyway because one of the officers (with no formal computer qualifications) testified he could have broken 2048-bit AES encryptio…

> he said he would unsolder the chips off the circuit board and put them onto another board ... The judge allowed the testimony and believed it. I've experienced similar issues with judges. When evidence hinges on something very technical - they generally allow it and place the burden of arguing it on the defense. ...which often allows any other evidence gotten by that means. ...and even if/when it's struck out - the…

This. Everything above. I was offered plea for immediate release on my very first court date. Turned it down. Spent 8 years locked up fighting it. It's complicated, but it actually got dismissed after 5 years but as I was walking out of the jail I got arrested again by some out-of-jurisdiction police on a fake arrest warrant that the prosecutors created and had entered into the Sheriff's computer system. So back to jail for another 3 years to fight again. Trying telling anyone the arrest warrant was fake! LOL. I wrote letters all over the place to try and get some action on that. I had the state government come one time to the jail with the sheriff's record people.. "The computer says you were arrested, so you were arrested." "OK, who does it say arrested me?" "It says the prosecutor arrested you." "Have you ever heard of a prosecutor making an arrest before?" "No, but the computer says it so it has to be true." FML. Basically no-one would accept that it is possible for a fake warrant to be made. I EVEN HAVE THE COURT ROOM TRANSCRIPTS WHERE THE JUDGE SAYS THERE IS NO ARREST WARRANT.. and still no-one would believe me. The system is fucked. If I had $250,000 for some real lawyers I would be fine.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#496

Post by abandonliberty »

LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

There's a strong possibility that Signal is already breaking Cellebrite https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/

>For example, by including a specially formatted but otherwise innocuous file in an app on a device that is then scanned by Cellebrite, it’s possible to execute code that modifies not just the Cellebrite report being created in that scan, but also all previous and future generated Cellebrite reports from all previously scanned devices and all future scanned devices in any arbitrary way (inserting or removing text, email, photos, contacts, files, or any other data), with no detectable timestamp changes or checksum failures. This could even be done at random, and would seriously call the data integrity of Cellebrite’s reports into question.

...

>In completely unrelated news, upcoming versions of Signal will be periodically fetching files to place in app storage.

I strongly advise against pissing off Signal by claiming you can hack them.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#497

Post by boppo1 »

kingcharles wrote: post #393
bleachedsleet wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you do use biometrics and ever find yourself in a sticky situation most modern operating systems have built in features to quickly disable them on demand. iOS, for example, allows you to quickly disable Face/Touch ID by holding the side+any volume button for two seconds and then quickly tap the side button again when the shutdown slide appears.

Probably won't have time. I had a loaded gun pointed at my head and told not to touch my phone. Had every reason to believe they would have fired.

You have to tell this story.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#498

Post by kingcharles »

cyphertruck wrote: post #443
q1w2 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he said he would unsolder the chips off the circuit board and put them onto another board ... The judge allowed the testimony and believed it. I've experienced similar issues with judges. When evidence hinges on something very technical - they generally allow it and place the burden of arguing it on the defense. ...which often allows any other evidence gotten by that means. ...and even if/when it's struck out - the…

What you are describing is corruption. It’s actually a crime. But government will never hold government prosecutors or judges to account for corruption that favors government interests.

Who do you report it to?

For instance, the police committed about a dozen felonies in my case. In Illinois, in all counties except Cook County, the misconduct has to be reported to the police station where the officer works. THEY WILL JUST LAUGH AT YOU. They are not going to charge their own police officer with misconduct because a "criminal" reported it.

And if you are in jail and try to report anything you can only do it by postal mail. In which case all your letters just go into the circular filing cabinet under their desk.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#499

Post by chimeracoder »

Ikatza wrote: post #494
chimeracoder wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iOS, for example, allows you to quickly disable Face/Touch ID by holding the side+any volume button for two seconds and then quickly tap the side button again when the shutdown slide appears Android unfortunately doesn't have anything like this enabled by default, and what it allows you to enable is much more limited. Lockdown mode[0] has to be enabled manually (it's hidden deep in setting that most people won't no…

Not really. I have a gesture programmed in Nova Launcher to disable biometrics with a pinch. The system allows you to do many more things than iOS, just not put of the box.

> Not really. I have a gesture programmed in Nova Launcher to disable biometrics with a pinch

The original statement was

> most modern operating systems have built in features to quickly disable them on demand

A custom-made gesture using a third-party launcher is not built-in (to say nothing of whether that's accessible or feasible for the vast majority of Android users).

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#500

Post by l3s2d »

chimeracoder wrote: post #457
bleachedsleet wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you do use biometrics and ever find yourself in a sticky situation most modern operating systems have built in features to quickly disable them on demand. iOS, for example, allows you to quickly disable Face/Touch ID by holding the side+any volume button for two seconds and then quickly tap the side button again when the shutdown slide appears.

> iOS, for example, allows you to quickly disable Face/Touch ID by holding the side+any volume button for two seconds and then quickly tap the side button again when the shutdown slide appears Android unfortunately doesn't have anything like this enabled by default, and what it allows you to enable is much more limited. Lockdown mode[0] has to be enabled manually (it's hidden deep in setting that most people won't no…

I believe lockdown mode is available in the power menu by default in Android 12.
Post reply on HN