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Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

arstechnica.com

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Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#11
post #2

There's also a persistent rumor/concept among Linux aficionados that some or all of the worst profanity spouting, knuckle-dragging, "Sodomize Microsoft!" fanbois are actually paid-for "reverse shills". That is, some vague conspiracy finances trolls to make the rest of Linux advocates look stupid. This rumor seems like an example of "Poe's Law" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law ) in action.

> There's also a persistent rumor/concept among Linux aficionados

Never heard such thing and people here can tell you I am a very vocal Linux aficionado.

But there are companies who specialize in interfering with forums to adjust brand-awareness for their clients.

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#12
post #5

They use the word "fanbois" to sound pejorative, but isn't this a good thing? It basically means that people are passionate about your company and its products. It means you're relevant. It has always been like that with rivalries like Mac vs. PC, Nintendo vs. Sega, and now Android vs. iPhone/iPad.

The phrase "Apple fanbois" is disparaging against the fans themselves, but not against Apple. If your brand is successful enough to have fanboys, then your brand is successful and that's a good thing for you. The fanboys themselves are irrational, and deserving of some criticism about their irrationality, but that generally does not carry over to the brand itself.

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#13
post #5

They use the word "fanbois" to sound pejorative, but isn't this a good thing? It basically means that people are passionate about your company and its products. It means you're relevant. It has always been like that with rivalries like Mac vs. PC, Nintendo vs. Sega, and now Android vs. iPhone/iPad.

It clouds the discussion on neutral issues and fair analysis when people are emotionally or otherwise invested in companies.

For example, see HN comments on news/opinion involving patents, Google, Android and Apple. They devolve in flamefests because people think that their particular company is being wronged, regardless of their original stance on patents etc. before such news involving their companies came out.

Asymco's analysis always seems to make errors that favor Apple, like leaving out HTC from stats on how profitable Android OEMs are. Or something like this http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2887430

Same with Gruber with his extreme pro-Apple spin on everything. Or Marco's 'analysis' http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2878329

It's very telling how some geeks find Gruber, Asymco, Marco etc. very insightful, whereas others find them inane and biased to a fault. No wonder the discussion runs into a flamefest with very harsh moderation.

Not singling out Apple here, there are examples where criticizing Google will get you automatically downvoted here on HN.

Some part of the moderation seems to be on 'party lines'. Criticize Apple or Google, or support MS and face downvotes or no votes. Criticize MS, get a boatload of karma. All this regardless of the actual facts on hand.

As you say, all this may be good for companies, especially ones that carefully cultivate their brand image to use such effects positively, but this is not really beneficial to honest discussion, information or analysis. It turns the conversation into Fox News vs. MSNBC. with people unable to admit their favorite company can do something wrong once in a while, resulting in people mudslinging the competition instead.

Also, see Roughly Drafted and Boycott Novell(now techrights.org).

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not cool to be passionate. It's always been cool to be intelligent though. EDIT: I did not mean to say that being passionate is bad. I meant to say that in most social situations, appearing overly passionate is often bad. Right now, I am struggling to maintain passion for the project I'm working on and I know that I will fail as soon as I stop being passionate about it -- so I know there are hard times when pass…

No great thing was ever accomplished without being passionate.Even the research field which is all about intellectualism needs you to be passionate about your ideas and ploughing away at them even though they are just untested hypotheses till it gets proved

Problem is, one needs to be passionate about the right things from the very beginning -- and, paradoxically, the only way to decide objectively which things are worth being passionate about is to start off being dispassionate about them.

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#15
post #5

They use the word "fanbois" to sound pejorative, but isn't this a good thing? It basically means that people are passionate about your company and its products. It means you're relevant. It has always been like that with rivalries like Mac vs. PC, Nintendo vs. Sega, and now Android vs. iPhone/iPad.

It's not cool to be passionate. It's always been cool to be intelligent though. EDIT: I did not mean to say that being passionate is bad. I meant to say that in most social situations, appearing overly passionate is often bad. Right now, I am struggling to maintain passion for the project I'm working on and I know that I will fail as soon as I stop being passionate about it -- so I know there are hard times when pass…

It depends on what you are passionate about. Passion drives people to accomplish things, keeps them focused, and provides motivation. Being passionate about your work, your research, your art can all be very positive things.

Being passionate about a brand though is probably less of a good thing for you personally.

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#16
post #5

They use the word "fanbois" to sound pejorative, but isn't this a good thing? It basically means that people are passionate about your company and its products. It means you're relevant. It has always been like that with rivalries like Mac vs. PC, Nintendo vs. Sega, and now Android vs. iPhone/iPad.

Yeah, I can perfectly see things in this light.

Look at programming languages. There are lot of passionate users, advocating the languages, and things don't turn sour like that. I would even call myself a Lisp and Ruby fanboy, I find it a funny word, not pejorative at all. Add GNU/Linux to that too. (EDIT: Of course I know those things have limitations and I wouldn't use them everything, they're not silver bullets, and that's why I prefer projects where I can use them)

The problem is this "us or them" mentality, when you can't stand people using different things, or think they're making wrong choices.

Just look at articles on ArsTechnica, CNet or specific iOS/Android sites and you'll get a bunch of comments like "iOS users are sheep who like shiny stuff" or "Android users are cheap bastards who don't buy apps".

Being "passionate" clearly isn't the problem here, being an asshole because you're obsessed with some brand, on the other hand...

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#18
post #2

There's also a persistent rumor/concept among Linux aficionados that some or all of the worst profanity spouting, knuckle-dragging, "Sodomize Microsoft!" fanbois are actually paid-for "reverse shills". That is, some vague conspiracy finances trolls to make the rest of Linux advocates look stupid. This rumor seems like an example of "Poe's Law" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law ) in action.

[deleted]

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#19
I always thought this was an interesting example of Apple extremists being provoked by a hoax:

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mac/news/2004/02/62157

The hoaxer, identified only as "Andy," claimed he received a dual-processor G5 for Christmas. But preferring a Windows PC, he swapped out the insides of the $3,000 machine for the guts of a cheapo PC. The post included several digital photographs to prove the outrageous claim.

It generated insults from all over the world, and even threats of violence.

bediger also mentioned the possible presence of "reverse shills" being used to pollute the Linux camp. I believe there may be some truth to that -- it's one way to convince on-the-fence tech execs that Linux/Open Source supporters are extremists.

I also believe there's a parallel in politics: Many political campaigns, when they take the fight into online forums, blogs, and newspaper comment threads, attempt to make the other side seem as offensive and idiotic as possible. Extremist commenters repel moderates who might otherwise be aligned with the cause, and/or attract other extremists. I don't have proof of this (almost all such comments are anonymous) other than the staggering incidence of idiocy I see on comment threads when politicians are discussed.

Re: Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image

#20
post #11
post #2

There's also a persistent rumor/concept among Linux aficionados that some or all of the worst profanity spouting, knuckle-dragging, "Sodomize Microsoft!" fanbois are actually paid-for "reverse shills". That is, some vague conspiracy finances trolls to make the rest of Linux advocates look stupid. This rumor seems like an example of "Poe's Law" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law ) in action.

> There's also a persistent rumor/concept among Linux aficionados Never heard such thing and people here can tell you I am a very vocal Linux aficionado. But there are companies who specialize in interfering with forums to adjust brand-awareness for their clients.

You haven't read Boycott Novell or even Groklaw? The articles and comments are full of paranoid people who see Microsoft behind EVERYTHING.
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