Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 615 posts

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#411

Post by giantg2 »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #396
giantg2 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you had to add that last sentence. The prior statements can be true in cities or "blue" places too.

True, Portland, Ore. police department are documented white supremacists and clan sympathizers, and there's not many places bluer than PDX. But my last statement is 100% true. There's only one side in the corrupt police debate, regardless of your feelings of "both sides are the same". Show me where the liberal cops standing up for social justice and BLM are hiding, please, I'd love to live in that town.

It's not about standing up for BLM. It's that there can be corrupt liberal cops, or cops supporting liberal ideals in a corrupt manner.

One issue that this can be common with is gun rights - people lawfully carrying/owning a firearm who are harassed by police who support the liberal policies related to gun control. This has been a common thing in Philadelphia.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#412

Post by SauciestGNU »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #326

Lots of posts on here about US folks taking bizarre measures to avoid being harassed by authority: travel with burner phones, not using unusual OSes, not using techniques to record, wiping phones before travel. We're just normalizing a slow roll to a police-state.

Not exactly a slow roll, recently a group of my friends engaged in a sit-in, and the police beat them then charged them with resisting or obstructing causing injury, a 5 year felony because despite not resisting the officers complained of soreness after beating them.

I just want to say the police are almost universally monsters, and if you find yourself on a jury where someone is accused of violence against the police, consider not convicting, since the police are probably either lying or the accused acted in self-defense.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#413

Post by 0x0 »

kingcharles wrote: post #408
II2II wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A police officer compels you to turn over a password at gunpoint. You do so in an act of self preservation. Will any evidence acquired as a result be admissable in court?

It depends. The password would be suppressed because it was coerced from you, but the police can now say they would have obtained your data anyway through another method, and then the court will let them use the data. For instance, in my case the police said they could break 2048-bit AES encryption and so they were allowed to keep the data after the password was suppressed.

2048-bit AES encryption? Considering AES usually is 128bit and sometimes 256bit, that's a tall order. In fact, can you even call it AES with a straight face if you are dealing with 2048bit keys? AFAIK the AES standard only covers 128/192/256 bit keys.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#414

Post by giantg2 »

kingcharles wrote: post #394
giantg2 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a nightmare, but also unsurprising based on my limited experiences. I hope you are outside the statue of limitations or speedy trial window by now.

Statute of limitations only applies to charging someone, not after they've been charged. Speedy trial doesn't apply in almost any situation you can think of. It's almost impossible to beat a case on speedy trial grounds. All my speedy trial motions have been denied so far, most recently because of COVID. I'm still working this angle though.

I wasn't sure if they formally charged you. My state says they have 5 years to complete the trial (or maybe initiate after charging).

Good luck!

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#415

Post by RNCTX »

nerdponx wrote: post #275
RNCTX wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/all-effd-up-levine https://www.wired.com/2011/11/eff-palantir/ If you know something or someone's name, which / who claims to be some sort of advocacy for individuals against the overreach of an industrialized nation's government, and that person / thing is not being COINTELPRO'd, MKULTRA'd, GLADIO'd, PAPERCLIP'd, etc, it's because that person / thing is complicit in some way with the th…

I think you're seeing patterns that don't exist. Maybe there is a 3-letter agency that allows the EFF to exist for strategic reasons. That's almost so unavoidable that it's irrelevant. But the EFF happening to side with Apple is more a sign of Apple having smart PR people than the EFF being a fundamentally untrustworthy organization. I'm willing to be paranoid, but I'm not willing to be so with paranoid as to shit on…

It's less what they get done and more what they willfully ignore (such as the Cambridge Analytica story when Facebook became a donor of theirs).

There's also the case of Shahid Buttar pretending to challenge Nancy Pelosi in an election, which is a way of saying "ensured that Nancy didn't have a real challenger."

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#416

Post by dillondoyle »

kingcharles wrote: post #374
BeefySwain wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you appeal? Or reach out to the ACLU or EFF? I'll admit I'm somewhat skeptical of your account, but if true I would expect a post demonstrating so would be on the front page of this site quite quickly.

Where I live you can only appeal once you're found guilty at a trial. The case is over 8 years old now and I still haven't had trial. I would hope the appeal court would reverse, but I've had about a dozen cases wrongly denied by the appellate courts recently. The appellate courts are pretty much as biased as the trial courts, especially at the state level. The federal courts are a little bit smarter. I've tried talk…

Wait, you are part to or accused in about 12 cases?!

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#417

Post by IceWreck »

dillondoyle wrote: post #416
kingcharles wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live you can only appeal once you're found guilty at a trial. The case is over 8 years old now and I still haven't had trial. I would hope the appeal court would reverse, but I've had about a dozen cases wrongly denied by the appellate courts recently. The appellate courts are pretty much as biased as the trial courts, especially at the state level. The federal courts are a little bit smarter. I've tried talk…

Wait, you are part to or accused in about 12 cases?!

Now I'm wondering what he does for a living. Maybe he's an activist or something/.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#418

Post by rootusrootus »

giantg2 wrote: post #404
rootusrootus wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about a judge, or a jury? An officer of the court is compelled to tell the truth, under oath or not. A jury is not required to give an officer of the court any more weight than they give to anyone else.

The trooper lied to "the court", twice. It was a bench trial. Both lies took place in front of the magistrate with no jury present. I have documentation that shows the statement were factually incorrect and that for one of those statements he said the opposite a few minutes beforehand and the evidence supports the out-of-court statement.

Well, the downside of calling them judges is that sometimes they make a call we don't agree with. Maybe legitimately, maybe not. But it isn't necessarily evidence of a systemic problem, even if it is entirely unjust for you.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#419

Post by kingcharles »

0x0 wrote: post #413
kingcharles wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. The password would be suppressed because it was coerced from you, but the police can now say they would have obtained your data anyway through another method, and then the court will let them use the data. For instance, in my case the police said they could break 2048-bit AES encryption and so they were allowed to keep the data after the password was suppressed.

2048-bit AES encryption? Considering AES usually is 128bit and sometimes 256bit, that's a tall order. In fact, can you even call it AES with a straight face if you are dealing with 2048bit keys? AFAIK the AES standard only covers 128/192/256 bit keys.

This is my fault for not checking before I typed. It is AES with a 256-bit key. It was Microsoft Bitlocker.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#420

Post by ChrisKnott »

kingcharles wrote: post #419
0x0 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2048-bit AES encryption? Considering AES usually is 128bit and sometimes 256bit, that's a tall order. In fact, can you even call it AES with a straight face if you are dealing with 2048bit keys? AFAIK the AES standard only covers 128/192/256 bit keys.

This is my fault for not checking before I typed. It is AES with a 256-bit key. It was Microsoft Bitlocker.

Isn't the key issue what your password was, though? If your password was "123", then they probably could have cracked it regardless of how strong the encryption was.
Post reply on HN