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Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

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Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#221
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the fact that human language will also change over the course of 500 years 500 year old English is nothing like English today

It’s still intelligible, though. One thousand years is about the accepted timeframe for a language to be no longer mutually intelligible for speakers at either end of that period. Of course, it’s entirely possible the rate of change within a language is not static over millennia.

Isn't it a bit silly to ask about whether 1000 year old people can understand modern language?

If it's not, I would love to know more about this.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#222
I've thought about a project like this. Although, in my fantasies it was a way to store wealth and provide incentives for revitalization while I am in cryogenic stasis waiting to be thawed out and revived.

Basically, I would write a few modules - Content, secrets, funder, tester, advertiser, executor, and get them running in some cloud deployment.

Content is whatever website you want to host. That part wasn't in my fantasies. Secrets module implements an API to share and store secret information provided the caller has the right keys. Funder is responsible for interfacing with financial accounts and making prudent, low risk, financial decisions. In our time, this would be like using a Robinhood/Webull/whatever account to buy blue chip companies with a long history of steady share prices and dividends. The tester module confirms that all other modules faithfully reproduce their intended purpose and providing functional models with contact information for the executor. The executor is responsible for starting the other modules and providing them with the credentials they need to access the secrets module and get the other credentials they will need to function. Finally, the advertiser module is responsible for hiring freelancers to build copies of the other modules.

The system should aim to reproduce itself every five years or so and to kill itself off, by transferring funds to surviving children, when it starts experiencing operational problems, it begins to amass too much wealth, or it's been around for too long.

When new systems, standards, financial patterns, whatever arise, the future developers of the day will implement the new modules to interact with those new systems. If freelance developers get replaced by automated AI systems, then hire those instead, etc. Ideally, nothing would change too radically in between generations.

The system should aim to have a growing number of descendants, all investing their funds in whatever the most stable opportunities of the day are. The reason to try to have a growing number of descendants is that some will die by bad or fraudulent reproduction. Others might lose all of their money due to unlucky investment outcomes. Still others might get disabled or shut down. However, so long as the system maintains a positive expected survival rate, and it reproduces, I think the population of systems will increase.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#223

Probably unpopular answer: you could store your messages to the future in the op_return field of a series of small bitcoin transactions. I wouldn't recommend making this the only egg in your basket but I think there is a non-zero probability the blockchain history will be preserved even if the currency isn't used any longer, kind of like how you can still go see Song dynasty paper currency from 1,000 years ago.

Came here to post this - storing it on a blockchain is probably the most elegant answer to create high redundancy.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second part of your answer is hilarious and depressing.

Never underestimate the power of basic human needs over layers of abstractions. Software's intangibility will be its downfall when our modern society eventually collapses.

When society collapses, software of any kind will probably be among the least of our concerns.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As entertaining as this is, I have a bit more faith in archive.org.

Serious question, but why?

I think it's a historically significant dataset. We've seen other datasets be preserved, such as GitHub arctic vault.

I agree that it's tenuous. I would give it 20% odds of hitting the 500 year mark at best. And I don't think all of the data will survive.

But if archive.org ever becomes unsustainable to run, the existing data will likely be preserved. Lots of companies will be incentivized to continue hosting the data, as it's excellent PR if nothing else. They don't need to continue gathering the data, just host it.

Hosting is only going to become cheaper as t -> infinity, and given the massive amount of compute I've seen Google wield, it's hard to imagine that an operation like archive.org can't find some way to be preserved.

All that said, the biggest threat is sudden data loss. This only works as long as the data doesn't get lost. Has archive.org posted their operations policies anywhere? It would be interesting reading.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#226

I met a traveller from an antique land, Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand, Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal, these words appe…

Ramses is still better known than Shelley, some 5k years later. Ozymandias won.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#227
Isn't there an 'arrogance' in the premise when we ask these sorts of questions? Not a personal criticism; just an aside from the technical question for a moment.

It's the assumption that we've decided something we created should have permanence.

Similar to billionaires deciding they would like to live forever and trying to make it happen.

There's a beauty to the world, which is we get a short time to contribute, and then we give up our space/resources to make room for someone else. Our ancestors decide whether and what to carry forward.

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never underestimate the power of basic human needs over layers of abstractions. Software's intangibility will be its downfall when our modern society eventually collapses.

Hopefully some remnant of humanity will cast out among the stars with ultra-high density storage holding archives of most of human knowledge.

The Voyager Golden Record is an attempt to do this. It's a record that contains sounds and images to portray life on earth [1].

This is a present from a small, distant world, a token of our sounds, our science, our images, our music, our thoughts and our feelings. We are attempting to survive our time so we may live into yours - President Jimmy Carter

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Re: Ask HN: Best way to host a website for 500 years?

#230
Cut the data into the surface of a chunk of highly reflective and stable metal. Lob that into a high orbit. It will blink out your data from on high with nothing more than the incident light of the sun to anyone with a basic telescope, or even their naked eyes if it's big enough.

Obviously the details would be rather complicated. How is the data encoded? Morse code? Maybe ok for 500 years assuming the language it decodes to stays around. You could treat it like the messages we send to deep space and make it only pictograms. But that might take some effort if you are trying to bemoan the complexity of k8s for generations to come. That brings up the question of what are you trying to say? Do you already have something you think is worth saying across deep time? A person could spend their life solving that problem before they even get to the engineering challenges...

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