Wall of Sound • Hacker News Board

Re: Wall of Sound

#31

Post by dekhn » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

Wrong wall of sound. Actual wall of sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound_(Grateful_Dead)

The grateful dead bankrupted themselves bringing a revolutionary approach to sound reproduction to their touring kit. Unlike every system before and after, it directly routed the audio of each individual player to a unique cluster of speakers. Many of the reproduction qualities are still not easy to achieve today (perfectly in-phase at a quarter mile out), although the actual system was impractical and was eventually retired.

Re: Wall of Sound

#32

Post by woopwoop » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

There was a similar concept with a similar name at the same time in jazz music:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheets_of_sound

Sheets of sound was more an consequence of Coltrane's unique style and technical skillset, but this article does make me wonder if both concepts were to some extent outgrowths of the technology at the time.

Re: Wall of Sound

#33

Post by dekhn » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #19

lqet wrote: post #11

My favorite anecdote about the Wall of Sound technique is the paralyzing effect "Be My Baby" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSPpbOGnFgk ) had on Brian Wilson, founder of the Beach Boys: > "Be My Baby" had a profound lifelong impact on the Beach Boys' founder Brian Wilson. > When he heard "Be My Baby" for the first time through his car radio, he immediately pulled over to the side of the road and deemed it the grea…

Wow, after reading that legendary endorsement, I listened to it for the first time. I don’t normally think of myself as a philistine, but I’m afraid it didn’t speak to me at all. Maybe you had to be there.

I've heard the song before but when back and listened to it.

Sounds like many other terrible recordings from early 60s- terrible mix, terrible background noise, instruments can't be heard distinctly.

Contrast Take Five, recorded live several years before. It's got some background noise but it's still so clear you can hear the creaking of the bass during the drum solo.

Any track on Pet Sounds. Recorded only a few years later, and under heavy influence by Spector, it sounds so much dramatically better.

Can anybody point out a better recorded example of Spector's wall of sound?

Re: Wall of Sound

#34

Post by dekhn » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

deeblering4 wrote: post #2

If you are a Beatles Fun it's fun to listen to the records "Let it Be" and "Let it Be Naked" back to back. Let it be was produced by Phil Spector, and has a lot of the wall of sound trappings such as heavy use of effects, and heavily overdubbed string/chorus/etc parts. Let it be naked is a remixed version of the album Paul McCartney was involved in to remove much of the Spector wall of sound parts. For example listen…

wow, never heard of that. I like turning off the schmaltz.

Re: Wall of Sound

#35

Post by Lendal » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #19

lqet wrote: post #11

My favorite anecdote about the Wall of Sound technique is the paralyzing effect "Be My Baby" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSPpbOGnFgk ) had on Brian Wilson, founder of the Beach Boys: > "Be My Baby" had a profound lifelong impact on the Beach Boys' founder Brian Wilson. > When he heard "Be My Baby" for the first time through his car radio, he immediately pulled over to the side of the road and deemed it the grea…

Wow, after reading that legendary endorsement, I listened to it for the first time. I don’t normally think of myself as a philistine, but I’m afraid it didn’t speak to me at all. Maybe you had to be there.

It's too late to listen to it for the first time in 2021. You had to listen to it in 1963, or with that frame of mind, because before then there was nothing else like it. Everything after was influenced by it. And now it's normal. Just like Dylan, or the Beatles or any great influencer. They don't sound that great today. If you weren't alive before them, it seems normal and pedestrian, like a standard that was always there. Only it wasn't. At some point someone had to invent that great leap forward, then everyone after copies it, and so today it is taken for granted as the standard baseline from which you build your thing onto.

Re: Wall of Sound

#36

Post by tomc1985 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

hungryhungryhun wrote: post #4

Why do we keep deifying this guy? He's a murderer who was clever enough to give his studio techniques a catchy name.

Is it not stupid that someone's sins should stain every single unrelated thing they've ever done? What kind of moral fascism is it where the person must be good and holy in order to not invalidate every single thing someone has made?

Same thing could be said about ReiserFS... a technical achievement completely disregarded because the creator murdered his wife.

The idea that a creation or an idea is tainted by its creators sins has no basis in physical reality and exists solely in the minds of humans.

Re: Wall of Sound

#37

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

deeblering4 wrote: post #2

If you are a Beatles Fun it's fun to listen to the records "Let it Be" and "Let it Be Naked" back to back. Let it be was produced by Phil Spector, and has a lot of the wall of sound trappings such as heavy use of effects, and heavily overdubbed string/chorus/etc parts. Let it be naked is a remixed version of the album Paul McCartney was involved in to remove much of the Spector wall of sound parts. For example listen…

* (spector) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4HjTH_fTM

* (naked) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfVAJNqWw84

* (spector) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90M60PzmxEE

* (naked) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLddD6Xf-8g

Re: Wall of Sound

#38

Post by 4oo4 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

Despite being a crazy murderer, Phil Spector was a great audio engineer. A big reason he produced this way is that he knew it would sound good ("hot") on jukeboxes and radios of the time.

> The intention was to exploit the possibilities of studio recording to create an unusually dense orchestral aesthetic that came across well through radios and jukeboxes of the era.

Really happy to see people discussing "Be My Baby" on here, that's one of the best songs ever. Not just for Spector's production but the vocal performance is amazing too.

Listening to songs in the Wall of Sound style production, and in particular "Be My Baby" really influenced me as a musician.

Re: Wall of Sound

#39

Post by codemonkey-zeta » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

Lendal wrote: post #35

jl6 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, after reading that legendary endorsement, I listened to it for the first time. I don’t normally think of myself as a philistine, but I’m afraid it didn’t speak to me at all. Maybe you had to be there.

It's too late to listen to it for the first time in 2021. You had to listen to it in 1963, or with that frame of mind, because before then there was nothing else like it. Everything after was influenced by it. And now it's normal. Just like Dylan, or the Beatles or any great influencer. They don't sound that great today. If you weren't alive before them, it seems normal and pedestrian, like a standard that was always…

This is exactly how I felt watching "Citizen Kane". It just felt like an ordinary movie? Still, a good movie, but what was all the hype about? Turns out the gravity of that movie was all about the influence it had on all future generations of film.

Re: Wall of Sound

#40

Post by adrianmonk » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

deeblering4 wrote: post #2

If you are a Beatles Fun it's fun to listen to the records "Let it Be" and "Let it Be Naked" back to back. Let it be was produced by Phil Spector, and has a lot of the wall of sound trappings such as heavy use of effects, and heavily overdubbed string/chorus/etc parts. Let it be naked is a remixed version of the album Paul McCartney was involved in to remove much of the Spector wall of sound parts. For example listen…

> Let it be naked is a remixed version of the album Paul McCartney was involved in to remove much of the Spector wall of sound parts.

To expand on this, the album was produced at a very contentious time for The Beatles when they weren't cooperating with each other, around the time of their breakup.

The recording project had been put on hold, and I think Spector only became involved when it was revived. He replaced George Martin, their normal producer. And this was done without consulting some members of the band.

This article (which is about "The Long and Winding Road", one of the tracks above) is an interesting read:

https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/the-long-and-winding-road...

Paul McCartney was furious that his song had been altered without his knowledge or agreement. George Martin, their normal producer, didn't have complimentary things to say about Spector either.