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The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

pluralistic.net

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Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#21

What an ignorant blowhard Cory Doctorow is. " This is a great strategy in light of US anittrust [sic] theories over the past 40 years, during which time antitrust regulators promised to leave companies alone as they formed monopolies, provided they didn't hike price after attaining monopoly dominance. " No, Cory, that's not what happened and there was no "promise." The new theory of anti-trust was "consumer harm." Hi…

Wow uh.... hitting a bit hard there. This seems like a very strong reaction, to something that seems straightforward & accurate to me. So you've found a couple bones to pick to justify these insults you're gunning to fire... here's my view on them.

> No, Cory, that's not what happened and there was no "promise."

Borkism's "consumer harm" theory has, in almost all cases, been centered around hiking prices. Given the lack of interference we've seen for the past 40 years, whether or not there was this "promise" seems moot: there has been a pathetically low level of anti-trust enforcement. Whether promised or not, there has certainly been a delivery.

That you can cite a single 20 year old Microsoft case does little to convince me that there is efficient & active anti-trust regulation. It was a pretty heinous act, by Microsoft, at a time when there was only one mainstream consumer OS. But now that there's two OSes, there's no need for anti-trust, seemingly, and Apple is allowed to engage in far far far worse behaviors on iOS with regards to only permitting Safari technology to run, hampering the web. Social media companies have faced no scrutiny in their bonanza of competitor purchasing. The semiconductor market has undergone a radical vast wave of consolidation, again, seemingly entirely unchecked. Whatever the new Robert Bork "consumer harm" standard might grant it license to regulate, it certainly doesn't seem to be doing much. Proving those harms is much harder & more specific a task than what came before, and has, imo, been enormously clearly for the worse, as Cory continues to rightly argue.

> No, Cory, those are not "operating costs,"

The entire basis of this post is that the accounting doesn't reflect the truth of the matter. The accounting of acquisitions as a one time capital costs isn't really genuine or fair, when a constant ongoing stream of acquisitions is required to maintain the power & position of dominance. The dominant player has to keep feeding the meter to continue operating from a position of power. Each of those may be a one time cost, but the macro behavior is that this is not so different than the grid hookup keeping the data-centers running. It sustains the dominance of the entity. It's an operating cost, the cost of staying where they are.

Your point about patents is entirely besides the point. This isn't about companies using courts to try to destroy one another- something we haven't ever really seen at scale in the modern world. This is about Saturn Eating His Son. This is about the gigantic titaneous overlords of the planet insuring nothing new ever happens, preventing disruption. By acquiring all freshness & devouring it, bodily.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this information could have been delivered without also delivering personal insults on the side.

Perhaps, but this is the second article by Doctorow this week.

that's not a valid reason for insulting somebody. if I've had to tone down my attitude to fit the tone this site aims for, then I think you should too.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#23

Cory Doctorow is ignorant of economics and competition policy. It’s frustrating to see his thoughts shared here so often. There is no credible economic theory of firm “power seeking”. What’s more, you don’t need such a theory to explain what’s going on here. If you want to explain why Google paid so much for Motorola, you can do so via the various defects in intellectual property law. All large firms are at least occ…

> There is no credible economic theory of firm “power seeking”

How is the theory of market power combined with everything else we know not that? [1] It seems obviously in the firms interest even if their primary motive were still profit since it ensures increased rates of profit (modulo risk of a regulatory smackdown.)

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_power

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#24

What an ignorant blowhard Cory Doctorow is. " This is a great strategy in light of US anittrust [sic] theories over the past 40 years, during which time antitrust regulators promised to leave companies alone as they formed monopolies, provided they didn't hike price after attaining monopoly dominance. " No, Cory, that's not what happened and there was no "promise." The new theory of anti-trust was "consumer harm." Hi…

Please make your substantive points without name-calling and personal attacks. You broke the site guidelines badly here.

This is particularly important when your view of the underlying issue is actually correct, because if you post like this about it, you end up discrediting not only yourself but also the truth [1], and that hurts everybody. We're really trying to avoid that sort of internet dynamic here.

I certainly appreciate that you have inside knowledge about this topic and are willing to share it with us! That part is great. I also understand (believe me) the frustration that comes up when people make glib claims about a situation they don't have first-hand knowledge of. But if you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The theory (since discarded) was that a heavy patent portfolio would give you a better negotiating position if you were sued. There was no thought of actually asserting these patents against Microsoft, or anyone. Doesn't it kind of prove part of the argument? Google apparently felt threatened by patents, enough so to acquire "second strike capabilities" as deterrence. Seems to me Google though patents aggressive to…

It only "prove[s] part of the argument" if you rephrase the argument to your liking. You are also conflating "defensive" and "aggressive." Kinda like saying Switzerland is "aggressive" because they have mandatory military service for all males.

> Kinda like saying Switzerland is "aggressive" because they have mandatory military service for all males.

I'm curious: Have you heard of the state's "monopoly on violence" before? It comes up a lot in political theory discussions, and it applies to this attempted rebuttal by analogy.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#26
post #9

Things like OIN[0] didn't exist when MS and Google bought companies to strip them of their patents. They do exist now, and it's basically a truce over fighting on patents. The Bork view on anti-trust definitely has favored these companies, and Apple and Google can absolutely be accused of having and using monopoly power to keep competitors out. Google pays to be the default search engine on iOS (keeping competitors o…

Re [0], there are zillions of these "open patent" initiatives. Every week a new one comes along. It's easy to get lots of tiny companies to sign up for them. It's a lot harder to get anyone with a really valuable patent.

As for the Bork view: all those things you mentioned are "consumer harm" and are not protected. It would be a lot more fruitful to look at the lobbyist spending by the tech giants, and the Astroturf "studies" they fund.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#27
post #5

The link here isn't exactly the right one - the same thing happened to me when I tried sharing this article previously as well ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28933313 ). Either we both pasted the wrong URL or maybe HN trims off the hashtag part of the URL (with the #capital-as-power on the end of the URL). Anyways, the correct link is https://pluralistic.net/2021/10/20/vizio-vs-the-world/#capit... .

I definitely submitted the URL with the hash-mark and fragment[0], so HN must strip it off. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_fragment

Yes, that's what happened. Sorry! I've put it back and will try to prevent this from happening again.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but this is the second article by Doctorow this week.

that's not a valid reason for insulting somebody. if I've had to tone down my attitude to fit the tone this site aims for, then I think you should too.

I get his annoyance. It's infuriating to keep seeing the opinions of the ignorant elevated on HN as if they're gospel. It's bad enough that this place is a shrine to Paul Graham, let's not add any more fools to this roster.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this information could have been delivered without also delivering personal insults on the side.

Perhaps, but this is the second article by Doctorow this week.

Cory is awesome & has an accurate, informed view on techno-politics.

Re: The monopoly strategy behind the Google/Microsoft mobile patent wars

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's not a valid reason for insulting somebody. if I've had to tone down my attitude to fit the tone this site aims for, then I think you should too.

I get his annoyance. It's infuriating to keep seeing the opinions of the ignorant elevated on HN as if they're gospel. It's bad enough that this place is a shrine to Paul Graham, let's not add any more fools to this roster.

Oh more undeserved out of hand insults, from another camp, great!

Cory is a well networked, fairly thorough, informed blogger. He participates in all sorts of panels on topics of regulation, listens to a wide amount of voices. His views typically reflect & meet with a wide variety of other expert opinions.

It's really unfortunate that such easy, cheap character assassination is being done against someone who has spoken so well, with such unvarnished genuine interest & care for what technology can be in this world.

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