Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#251

Post by Mikeb85 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

filmgirlcw wrote: post #228

goohle wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will never be the year of the Linux desktop (and that's totally OK!) Android(Linux) is used by majority of users (40%), while Windows holds just 32.3%: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share .

Obviously, mobile devices far outnumber desktops and laptops now (servers too), but I think conflating Android with both Linux and the Linux desktop is wrong. The whole meme of the Linux desktop wasn't meant to say, "uses a highly modified version of the Linux kernel with a custom userland, proprietary interface, proprietary services, custom drivers, etc. The idea was not to replace one proprietary system with anothe…

> but I think conflating Android with both Linux and the Linux desktop is wrong

I think when people say that it's more about saying that the use case for computing in general has changed. Linux is everywhere and runs everything so the fixation on desktops is old-fashioned and not really necessary anymore.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#252

Post by Kessler83 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

CaioAlonso wrote: post #5

As a counterpoint: Reasons to consider NOT switching to Linux https://corn.codeberg.page/notlinux.html

I'm surprised you can't see that this counter-article is just plain old FUD.

It should be a no-brainer that an operative system that is free, open, democratic, well documented and consisting of over 50,000 quality software packages---Debian, for example---is better than an OS which isn't any of those things.

Of course software is (also) about ideology. If you find yourself advocating putting more money in the pockets of the already super rich, or pretending that there isn't a digital part of human life where people have rights, well then obviously you have picked sides.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#253

Post by md8z » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

Zhyl wrote: post #242

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The year of Linux on the desktop" is a meme for a specific reason. It'll take longer than a year. The claim is funny because you imagine the whole world switching to Linux, like, overnight. Which is obviously unrealistic. It's a gradual process. But last year Chromebooks outsold Macs. Chromebooks are Linux. Even if they're not "Linux Linux," there isn't much you can do with one that you can't do with most other dist…

I agree with this. It's hard to engage with people like GP saying things like 'the year of the Linux desktop will never happen', as they are using the term to essentially dismiss Linux as a platform, however in order to counter it or to highlight the progress that has been made, you are effectively having to sidestep bad-faith framing of the issue. I don't think GP was universally dismissing Linux in the way that it…

As someone who has done a lot of hacking with Linux as a desktop platform, one would be absolutely right to dismiss it. The desktop platforms on Linux are still heavily fragmented and in some ways are still decades behind Windows/Mac. The existence of a better compatibility layer to run Windows games doesn't really change this fundamental flaw. I personally don't think it will ever be fixed because this fragmentation seems to be the whole reason why people want to use Linux on a desktop. That's what I personally would say is meant by "the year of the Linux desktop will never happen".

To put it another way, It's not like the existence of some Steam games is going to suddenly make it so you can go into a Walmart and buy a machine with Arch or Slackware preinstalled on it.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#254

Post by Zhyl » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #248

Zhyl wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. It's hard to engage with people like GP saying things like 'the year of the Linux desktop will never happen', as they are using the term to essentially dismiss Linux as a platform, however in order to counter it or to highlight the progress that has been made, you are effectively having to sidestep bad-faith framing of the issue. I don't think GP was universally dismissing Linux in the way that it…

>they are using the term to essentially dismiss Linux as a platform The original framing of 'year of the Linux desktop' from back in the 90s was predicated on the assumption that desktop OSes were mature, that Desktop Linux would soon catch up in usability with the proprietary ones, and then free would win. It was the precursor to Google's "open always wins" mantra with Android. That is almost certainly never going t…

I think there is a difference between recognising current reality and trying to snub something out of hand. I find those that are doing an honest appraisal of the current situation usually won't use the phrase in either a positive or a negative sense.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#255

Post by Zhyl » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

md8z wrote: post #253

Zhyl wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. It's hard to engage with people like GP saying things like 'the year of the Linux desktop will never happen', as they are using the term to essentially dismiss Linux as a platform, however in order to counter it or to highlight the progress that has been made, you are effectively having to sidestep bad-faith framing of the issue. I don't think GP was universally dismissing Linux in the way that it…

As someone who has done a lot of hacking with Linux as a desktop platform, one would be absolutely right to dismiss it. The desktop platforms on Linux are still heavily fragmented and in some ways are still decades behind Windows/Mac. The existence of a better compatibility layer to run Windows games doesn't really change this fundamental flaw. I personally don't think it will ever be fixed because this fragmentation…

But what of the Steam deck? If it sells well enough then you will absolutely be buying a machine with Arch pre-installed on it from Walmart.

A big 'if', and not currently the case, but also not as impossible as commentators such as yourself would suggest.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#256

Post by filmgirlcw » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

Zhyl wrote: post #242

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The year of Linux on the desktop" is a meme for a specific reason. It'll take longer than a year. The claim is funny because you imagine the whole world switching to Linux, like, overnight. Which is obviously unrealistic. It's a gradual process. But last year Chromebooks outsold Macs. Chromebooks are Linux. Even if they're not "Linux Linux," there isn't much you can do with one that you can't do with most other dist…

I agree with this. It's hard to engage with people like GP saying things like 'the year of the Linux desktop will never happen', as they are using the term to essentially dismiss Linux as a platform, however in order to counter it or to highlight the progress that has been made, you are effectively having to sidestep bad-faith framing of the issue. I don't think GP was universally dismissing Linux in the way that it…

I mean, I’m not dismissing Linux though. I am dismissing the idea that an operating system not funded by a trillion dollar company can make inroads with many , many end users, yes, that’s true (Google, Microsoft, Apple are all in that category), but I’m not dismissing Linux or the massive impact it has had. The Linux kernel is one of the singularly most disruptive forces in computing of the last 30 years. I think there is an argument to be made that it is the most disruptive. But Linux on the desktop, sorry. It’s not going to happen. And I just don’t consider Chrome OS Linux any more than I consider iOS Unix. I’ll probably still call macOS Unix (tho the Unixy bits are getting eroded with every release), but I personally don’t consider the kernel the operating system in this way, I just don't. I actually think the success of Chrome OS and macOS show what is necessary to make a successful desktop operating system: billions of dollars in investment. Not millions. Not tens of millions. Billions. It isn’t about the kernel. It’s about everything else.

My TV has a Linux kernel inside it. My coffee maker is running some variant of Linux or Busybox or something. Again, the Linux kernel is one of the most disruptive and important advancements in computing.

But the article was about switching from Windows to Linux on the desktop. And I think there are plenty of valid reasons to switch. I don’t think that particular article is a good example of them — and I think debates about what desktop OS people want to use are inflammatory by nature.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#257

Post by md8z » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

Zhyl wrote: post #255

md8z wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has done a lot of hacking with Linux as a desktop platform, one would be absolutely right to dismiss it. The desktop platforms on Linux are still heavily fragmented and in some ways are still decades behind Windows/Mac. The existence of a better compatibility layer to run Windows games doesn't really change this fundamental flaw. I personally don't think it will ever be fixed because this fragmentation…

But what of the Steam deck? If it sells well enough then you will absolutely be buying a machine with Arch pre-installed on it from Walmart. A big 'if', and not currently the case, but also not as impossible as commentators such as yourself would suggest.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the desktop. AFAIK the steam deck is a handheld gaming device similar to a Nintendo Switch, not a desktop PC. It seems about as related to desktop Linux as google stadia, i.e. not much. When I say machine with Arch I mean a desktop/laptop with just the stock Arch on it.

Edit: And if you really want to be pedantic, ChromeOS is technically Gentoo underneath the covers, but the only reason it works for its target use cases is because it's heavily modified with some proprietary components. Getting one of those is really different from the experience you would have with trying to put upstream Gentoo on a laptop.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#258

Post by vetinari » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #209

chirau wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obviously not true. Which Windows can't you run on that?

He's talking about the Windows 11 hardware requirements, which are very strict and only support the newest CPUs. However Windows 11 can be installed on the same hardware that runs Windows 10, it just won't allow you to upgrade. Otherwise it runs fine. Microsoft is basically turning Windows into what mobile OS's are: tightly controlled and requiring specific hardware to ensure a particular set of user expectations wit…

> However Windows 11 can be installed on the same hardware that runs Windows 10, it just won't allow you to upgrade.

It was not possible to either run the update assistant or boot from install media and install from there; both means said that the machine doesn't meet minimum requirements.

They didn't even say which ones, just shown a generic link. Only the Health Check running under W10 said that it is the CPU.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#259

Post by goohle » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

blakebreeder wrote: post #243

metalliqaz wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, that's why I still use Windows on my desktop.

Yeah, I don't feel that way at all about Linux and I daily drive it. Could you imagine our mothers troubleshooting any of the following things that have regularly happened to me on Linux in the last 5 years I've been daily driving it: * Hm, my sound stopped working. * Hm, dhcp stopped working. * X has completely failed to start. * This website just straight up doesn't load. * Thia game won't load (pretend it's solita…

My mom uses Fedora Linux for more than 15 years. She never saw any of that. I perform upgrades when necessary.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#260

Post by vetinari » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

chirau wrote: post #196

vetinari wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to the funny story, I have Ryzen 1900X on my desk (literally, the cpu in a small plastic box). Nowadays, those 8 Zen cores clocked at 3.8 GHz are not enough to run Windows, apparently.

This is obviously not true. Which Windows can't you run on that?

Yeah, who should I believe, you, a random stranger on the Internet, or my lying eyes? /s

It is Windows 11 that doesn't run on it.