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Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#31

Post by sumthinprofound »

LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

check out the Guardian Project's PanicKit. I'm not sure if it's still in active development but it looks like what you just described.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#32

Post by aaaaaaaaaaab »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #29
LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

If the police are aware of this “feature”, that’s an easy contempt and destruction of evidence charge among others. I’d recommend just not doing it.

Plausible deniability.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#33

Post by andi999 »

opheliate wrote: post #11

Meanwhile, in the UK: https://www.hcsolicitors.co.uk/news/giving-the-police-your-p... If a judge authorises a notice, under RIPA, you can be served a 2 year sentence for failing to disclose your phone's passcode.

So after serving the 2 year sentence, can they ask you again for the pass code?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#34

Post by lelanthran »

emilfihlman wrote: post #10

But wait, does this say that another court order can compel you to unlock it anyways? That doesn't seem logical at all.

> But wait, does this say that another court order can compel you to unlock it anyways?

If a court can compel speech, then they may as well go ahead and compel the suspect to confess.

There's no difference, once the courts compel speech.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#35

Post by tzs »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #21
nixpulvis wrote: post #5

Hmmmm... I was under the impression this was already the case. I remember reading about this a while ago when I was learning that they can force you to provide a fingerprint or face-scan.

Which is messed up. That said, biometric unlock is identification, NOT authorization; if you have secrets on your phone, do not use biometrics. They are a low to medium security convenience. Second, of course, don't keep evidence of crimes on your phone. And final tip, on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in. It also…

> And final tip, on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in. It also pops up with the option to call emergency services. Spamming the lock button is considered a panic button.

This may vary from iPhone model to iPhone model, but you can also disable biometric unlock by holding down both the lock button and one of the volume buttons for several seconds. This approach is more discrete.

The "spam the lock button" starts the emergency call countdown, which is accompanied by a loud alarm.

The "hold lock and volume" method brings up the screen with the "slide to power off" button, the "medical ID" button, and the "emergency call" button, but does not immediately start the emergency call countdown. If you keep holding lock and volume it will start the emergency call countdown with a 5 second countdown and without an alarm.

Edit: Here is Apple's documentation on this [1]. Some of this is configurable in the "Emergency SOS" settings.

[1] https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/make-emergency-calls-...

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#36

Post by NineStarPoint »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #23
postingawayonhn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right to remain silent vs. a court order to provide access to evidence.

Yeah but that access has to come from your brain; doesn't it therefore fall under the 5th amendment that you have the right to remain silent and something something self-incrimination? I mean I'm trying to think of other instances of getting access to evidence, and the only things I can think of is companies having to provide certain administrative documentation that may not even be their own. But that's probably me…

On companies providing documentation, the big point is that collective entities are not protected by the fifth amendment. You cannot invoke the fifth to protect a group you are a member of from liability, the fifth is a purely individual right. So anything related to companies and the fifth amendment doesn’t transfer over to individuals and the fifth amendment.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#37

Post by LinuxBender »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #29
LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

If the police are aware of this “feature”, that’s an easy contempt and destruction of evidence charge among others. I’d recommend just not doing it.

Agreed. That's why I believe it might be super handy if every or at least many phones had this in place so that you don't really stand out. At least every phone using an alternate OS. If all the mainstream operating systems had this I would expect an arms race between the OS devs and the forensics device devs.

As a side note, this would not necessarily be only used for law enforcement authorities. It could be that an armed phone thief requires you to unlock your phone. Sending a duress message, maybe even camera footage, GPS coordinates could be quite useful in the event you vanish. Teaching your kids to use this feature on their phones could also be very beneficial.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#38

Post by dredmorbius »

LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

Siri iOS has an "I'm being pulled over" keyphrase which begins recording.

There'be been a few "I'm being arrested" apps, which typically trigger by holding hard buttons (volume, home, and/or power), though I'm not aware of specifics. Most of these seem to date to the OWS protests of ... how did that happen ... a decade ago:

https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/help-im-getting-arrested/

Freedom of the Press Foundation offers this advice doc: https://freedom.press/training/mobile-security-for-activists...

(Initial misattribution corrected to iOS, not Siri.)

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#39

Post by kryogen1c »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #32
colejohnson66 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the police are aware of this “feature”, that’s an easy contempt and destruction of evidence charge among others. I’d recommend just not doing it.

Plausible deniability.

Are you joking? This is the exact opposite of plausible deniability. This feature requires premeditated user action to hide evidence in an attempt to mislead law enforcement. It is illegal.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#40

Post by joconde »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #32
colejohnson66 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the police are aware of this “feature”, that’s an easy contempt and destruction of evidence charge among others. I’d recommend just not doing it.

Plausible deniability.

...until the cops learn about that and add a countermeasure, then send you to jail for using it.
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