How is bamboo lumber made? (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#81

Post by op00to » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:54 AM UTC

ben_bai wrote: post #69

DeathArrow wrote: post #66

I wonder how long does take for bamboo to grow and if it can grow in US and Europe. Maybe it's economically viable to grow bamboo instead of cutting down trees.

Yes it grows in US/Europe. I only have experience with smaller forms (1inch, 2.5cm diameter). It's fast growing and spreads like crazy. Be careful with bamboo in your garden, it'll shoot out underground and resurface couple meters (yards) away from the main plant if you don't encase it in concrete. Now if it yields more then a fast growing tree? Don't know.

Growing bamboo is illegal in my North American municipality because it spreads so quickly beyond property lines.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#82

Post by londons_explore » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

Bamboo is surprisingly expensive considering it is a C4 photosynthesis plant that grows very fast in the tropics and is amenable to fully automated harvesting.

Anyone know why? Why is pine nearly 10x cheaper despite turning less light into carbon, growing in places with less light, requiring semi-manual harvesting and having a far longer plant-to-harvest time?

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#83

Post by bigbizisverywyz » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:25 AM UTC

hackerbee wrote: post #68

Melkman wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange that that article states "There's no single English word which is an exact equivalent of 'vorsprung'". Vorsprung is lead. Durch is harder in my opinion. Can be translate as "by" or "because of". So the translations would be "lead by technology" or "in the lead because of technology"

"Lead through technology"

I always thought it meant 'leap forward through the use of technology'.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#84

Post by y4mi » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:30 AM UTC

Melkman wrote: post #67

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/vorsprung-durch-technik....

Strange that that article states "There's no single English word which is an exact equivalent of 'vorsprung'". Vorsprung is lead. Durch is harder in my opinion. Can be translate as "by" or "because of". So the translations would be "lead by technology" or "in the lead because of technology"

Vorsprung is anything that is slightly ahead, so you're wrong there. It applies to a lot more than you seem to think. It's frequently used in describing smallish platforms on mountains, buildings as well for example.

The German term for "to lead" would be "führen".

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#85

Post by iandanforth » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:33 AM UTC

"Because laminated bamboo panels consist of individual strips, they show less swelling and shrinkage than solid wood panels."

As a layperson this kind of statement could as easily have said "they show more swelling" and I would have been equally as credulous.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#86

Post by tyingq » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #78

TedShiller wrote: post #43

If you start with something that is natural and sustainable (for example, bamboo), and you add to it something that is neither (for example, glue), then you end up with something that is neither natural nor sustainable. Sorry.

Yeah, same thing with those transparent or hardened woods. It's wood + a ton of epoxy. Isn't epoxy made from fossil fuels, or am I completely off?

Epoxy uses BPA and ECH, both from fossil fuels, yes.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#87

Post by i_am_proteus » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

TedShiller wrote: post #43

If you start with something that is natural and sustainable (for example, bamboo), and you add to it something that is neither (for example, glue), then you end up with something that is neither natural nor sustainable. Sorry.

Glues were made from animals for centuries and are animal glue is still phenomenal for a number of woodworking applications.

It's also much more expensive than synthetic glue. This does not mean that a glued lumber product is necessarily unnatural or unsustainable, but rather that the price may end up being higher, and the properties different, when using a natural glue.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#88

Post by cmrdporcupine » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:37 AM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #25

flimflamm wrote: post #17

I wonder how much energy this consumes compared to traditional wood equivalents?

Land use at least is much more efficient when harvests are every 4-5 years instead of every 40-80 years with spruce or fir. Birch can be felled at around 55 years. Normal wood is kiln dried similarly to bamboo, and glued panels are done in a similar fashion. Plywood is in a way more processed than bamboo.

We could do the same process with fast growing bush-form softwoods like poplar or willow that regenerate from roots.

In fact a stand of young poplars doesn't look too dissimilar from a bamboo grove; lots of narrow straight trees.

I cut two dying poplars on my property a few years ago and there's now a stand of dozens of 4" diameter smaller trees, sprouted out from the root system.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#89

Post by cheschire » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:44 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #79

nuerow wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineered lumber (MDF, OSB, glulam... all of them actually) also involves the same glues and chemical treatments used in bamboo, and both use formaldehide-based glues which are known carcinogens.

Why isn't there more of an uproar about this?

Uproar usually begins with the results of research and reports. That research and those reports typically originate from wherever the money is. That money typically originates from a new competitor entering the market, or from an established competitor trying to force change in market forces by affecting demand for the products being reported on.

Occasionally uproar originates from someone's personal motivation, but that requires a rare alignment of drive, capability and charisma.

Re: How is bamboo lumber made? (2016)

#90

Post by jameshart » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

geoffmunn wrote: post #45

TedShiller wrote: post #43

If you start with something that is natural and sustainable (for example, bamboo), and you add to it something that is neither (for example, glue), then you end up with something that is neither natural nor sustainable. Sorry.

It really bothers me when people try and pass off bamboo-based fabrics as being natural. It's called rayon and it's about as synthetic as you can possibly get. For those who are interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayon

Sure, but ‘synthetic’ is a weird word. At root it just means ‘made via synthesis’. Rayon is not made by synthesizing cellulose, though - it is made by extracting natural cellulose. You could say the fibers are synthesized - but cotton needs to go through a spinning process too. Where do you draw the line between ‘synthesis’ and ‘manufacturing’?

Sure, for rayon the cellulose extraction process is chemical, unlike the physical process used to get cellulose fibers out of cotton, but the raw material is still natural, plant grown cellulose.

There are plenty of things that are made by taking natural ingredients, shoving them in a vat of toxic chemicals to transform them, then taking them out to use, which are generally still considered ‘natural’ products: leather, bleached flour, pressure treated wood, dyed cotton…