Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash • Hacker News Board

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#171

Post by PeterisP » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 10:59 AM UTC

mbg721 wrote: post #16

anonporridge wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The precautionary savings of physical cash may even be on the rise as people realize how easily their economic lives could be switched off in an instant in the increasingly digital world, whether by being intentionally targeted or accidentally disabled with a lot of bureaucracy slowing down the correction. Having enough cash under your mattress that authority figures can't easily take from you is a psychological comf…

Physical cash that buys less and less with each passing day is not as useful, though.

It's not a disadvantage if savings accounts pay close to 0%.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#172

Post by PeterisP » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:03 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #127

lazide wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly - cash can be, and appears to be, widely tracked. Many ATMs scan serial numbers of bills, and network analysis of that data can be VERY informative.

Do you have a source? How valuable is knowing the serial number of an ATM dispensed bill? Very little cash is deposited into an ATM. Any time I’ve deposited cash I’ve never seen it scanned (it goes into the drawer). And if it were scanned at multiple points think of the cash in a register at a store? How many transactions does it go through before getting scanned again? Especially smaller bills? Seeing that a bill wa…

IIRC research showed that most large bills really were in circulation for 1 transaction only. As in, withdrawn from ATM, paid for something, deposited by the merchant at the end of the same day. Only small bills given out as change stay in circulation; but small bills constitute a tiny fraction of the total money circulation.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#173

Post by r00f » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:26 AM UTC

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #18

anonporridge wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The precautionary savings of physical cash may even be on the rise as people realize how easily their economic lives could be switched off in an instant in the increasingly digital world, whether by being intentionally targeted or accidentally disabled with a lot of bureaucracy slowing down the correction. Having enough cash under your mattress that authority figures can't easily take from you is a psychological comf…

Pseudo-relevant anecdote: I wanted to buy a used car a few months ago off someone on Facebook. We were meeting up same day so the easiest method seemed to be cash. I went to the bank to withdraw $7000 and was informed, much to my surprise, that it is impossible to withdraw more than $3000 without 48 hours notice. Suffice it to say, I've been seriously considering the tradeoffs of hoarding cash under my mattress.

It can be just bank policy, not related to any shortage or whatever. My bank allowed me to withdraw $ 30k, and didn't even ask why, they just said "come tomorrow, we don't have that cash today".

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#174

Post by eitland » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:30 AM UTC

nivenkos wrote: post #169

eitland wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next door, in Norway, the Norwegian bank is quite clear that accepting cash is required for every shop and failure to do so will be punished (unmanned kiosks and vending machines seems to be allowed though). I'm actually in favour of that, not because I fear my current government but because it - is convenient (much better than gift cards) - feels good to be able to buy stuff without telling my bank and Google and wh…

But banning cash, stops all petty crime, tax evasion, drug dealing, etc. immediately. It's such a great solution and we're so close! No-one will rob you when you have no cash to take, and they can't sell your phone anywhere since it could be traced (and the phone is now locked out and banned via IMEI, etc.). Technology could make society so much safer, so easily. And cards can work offline in an emergency, like they…

> But banning cash, stops all petty crime,

Do you really think criminals would give up this easy? Or go on to steal jewelry, watches, demand you buy gift cards as extortion or payment for stolen goods etc?

> tax evasion,

I'm fairly certain most significant tax evasion happens without any cash already.

> drug dealing, etc. immediately.

Again, do you really think this?

As mentioned above criminals doesn't have a history of just putting up a sad face and start doing something useful instead.

By the way, the more I learn the more I think we should end prohibition of more drugs, just like we did with alcohol. That could actually put a sad face on a number of criminals.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#175

Post by hungryforcodes » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #149

hungryforcodes wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with cash?

Cash is good. Anti-cash articles sometimes have the opposite effect.

Right!

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#176

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

eitland wrote: post #174

nivenkos wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But banning cash, stops all petty crime, tax evasion, drug dealing, etc. immediately. It's such a great solution and we're so close! No-one will rob you when you have no cash to take, and they can't sell your phone anywhere since it could be traced (and the phone is now locked out and banned via IMEI, etc.). Technology could make society so much safer, so easily. And cards can work offline in an emergency, like they…

> But banning cash, stops all petty crime, Do you really think criminals would give up this easy? Or go on to steal jewelry, watches, demand you buy gift cards as extortion or payment for stolen goods etc? > tax evasion, I'm fairly certain most significant tax evasion happens without any cash already. > drug dealing, etc. immediately. Again, do you really think this? As mentioned above criminals doesn't have a histor…

[deleted]

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#177

Post by bogota » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:35 AM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #6

There is a lot of rumor and speculation about very benign things. 1. Precautionary savings. In a low interest rate environment, there is not the same penalty for holding cash as getting interest in a savings account. A lot of people find it prudent to have a buffer of cash, say enough to cover 1 month of expenses. So cash withdrawn from an ATM but put into a piggybank or under the mattress will appear here as "missin…

The economist has been killing me for a long time. They use to have what I thought were good articles or maybe i was just less informed although I don’t think that has changed in the past 2 years when i noticed a huge drop in quality.

If anyone has any good news sources please let me know. The economist was the last thing i was reading before it stopped putting out quality content.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#178

Post by Waterluvian » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:47 AM UTC

Ralo wrote: post #58

Waterluvian wrote: post #12

I have like $200 cash just sitting in my room for years in case I need it for something that doesn’t take debit or credit like a carnival trip (I haven’t carried cash, ever, in years). I wonder how many others do the same? It adds up I imagine.

Wouldn't that be accounted for already? You withdrew that from a bank.

Oh perhaps. Maybe I misunderstand the situation but I thought if it wasn’t being circulated for years it would be considered unaccounted for.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#179

Post by garmaine » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 11:49 AM UTC

lazide wrote: post #124

garmaine wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so if a cop pulls you over you can prove it is documented/part of a ‘legal’ source Which the cop will promptly ignore and take the money anyway.

Which if you have a dashcam, paperwork, and lawyers could put him in jail or get you shot. You do have enough lawyers right?

No because once your money is charged (not you, your money) it is very difficult to get standing to fight it unless you luck out with the judge or something. And no matter the outcome the cop never sees consequences because of qualified immunity.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#180

Post by satellite2 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

> This seemingly counterintuitive paradox can be explained by demand for banknotes as a store of value in the euro area coupled with demand for euro banknotes outside the euro area,” the ECB’s analysis concluded. Strip away the jargon and it’s just another way of saying that people want banknotes because people want banknotes.

I think they missed the point massively in this article, the ECB comment is pretty self explanatory.

What they mean here is that other central banks (Japan and China for instance) and autocrats (and not gangsters at least not significantly) prefer keeping their foreign currency in cash despite the extra costs because western countries have the annoying habit to lock foreign electronic funds on a whim.