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Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

economist.com

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Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#131

Post by sofixa »

bserge wrote: post #117
_8j50 wrote: post #98

All noncash methods of payment have strings attached where consumers and merchants alike are subject to various controls and costs. Cash is simple, exchange something in your posession for goods and services. It cannot be used as a means of identity based regulation or to audit who is buying what from whom. I mean, bitcoin exists because of how unacceptable this is to everyone but the middlemen, bureaucrats and purse…

I always have cash because the bank, at any point, can decide to freeze my account until I show up in person with some arbitrary ID/documents and beg on my knees. That's the reality for most people and they don't even realize it. I guess once you have enough money it's different, but for an average non-millionaire chump, it's best not to trust anyone too much.

That's why i personally have a few bank accounts in different banks, with cards on different networks. The risk of a banking/network error is significantly lower that way.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#132

Post by rsj_hn »

vl wrote: post #59
Spooky23 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the folks schnookered by companies that sell gold. Aka suckers. The “real” gold and silver people use it to avoid taxation. The high spreads and illiquidity are less than what you owe the tax guy or your ex-wife.

How exactly is it going to work out if all purchaser of gold are tracked? You can’t buy any amount of gold without id.

How would you go about doing that, and what would it accomplish?

Gold doesn't multiply itself so that you have more gold that might be unreported. It's not like an investment account in the Caymans. It's just a collectible. You can also buy rare books, or antique furniture, or rubies, or any other collectible. There is absolutely nothing special about gold that doesn't equally apply to these other items, other than gold is more famous.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#133

Post by Broken_Hippo »

mbg721 wrote: post #16
anonporridge wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The precautionary savings of physical cash may even be on the rise as people realize how easily their economic lives could be switched off in an instant in the increasingly digital world, whether by being intentionally targeted or accidentally disabled with a lot of bureaucracy slowing down the correction. Having enough cash under your mattress that authority figures can't easily take from you is a psychological comf…

Physical cash that buys less and less with each passing day is not as useful, though.

That isn't limited to cash, though, as the money in the bank would have the same loss.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#134

Post by Ekaros »

bserge wrote: post #118
petilon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We let North Korea print their own $100 bills for years as a form of off the books aid That's very hard to believe. Citation needed!

Well, it's like saying "we let organized crime run rampant", implying there's a choice to stop it. Which I now realize might be true...

Outside hot-war which would result in massive casualties in SK, there is very little more that can be done to NK...

So there being no choice is probably correct in this case. At least with other countries there is some ways pressure them, with NK not too much, and not for measly sums of money involved.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#135

Post by Symbiote »

tristor wrote: post #68
inopinatus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a lot of rumor and speculation about very benign things. There is certainly misrepresentation and rumour-mongering in these comments, but not in the article, and there's nothing benign about international money laundering, or more precisely, nothing benign about the people it enables. > $50 Billion in cash is basically nothing. It's like 2% of currency in circulation. This is very far from the numbers quot…

One thing that's also benign but not mentioned by the grandparent is that any economy which has considerable foreign travelers passing through will likely end up losing some cash. I have two pint glasses sitting on my desk, one for coins, the other for bills, they are literally packed full of money from my various travels. Last time I checked, I had almost 300 euros in there and I haven't been in the Eurozone in quit…

€300 seems a lot to have in cash anyway, regardless of tourism. That is probably more than most people would want to risk on loss/theft.

It's three times what I routinely carry, which is still above average:

https://www.bloomberg.com/toaster/v2/charts/892967a8146e4cc8... or https://www.statista.com/statistics/787626/average-amount-of...

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#136

Post by yholio »

Waterluvian wrote: post #12

I have like $200 cash just sitting in my room for years in case I need it for something that doesn’t take debit or credit like a carnival trip (I haven’t carried cash, ever, in years). I wonder how many others do the same? It adds up I imagine.

I have a cash stash in my car for this very reason. I can't count the number of times it got me out of deep crap. When you are on an outdoors expedition in the middle of nowhere, you can lose your wallet, your phone might lose signal, you will find rural services that only take cash.

Always having the money for a full tank of gas and a night of cheap accommodation can prevent those very bad decisions and situations where you need to call the local authorities to rescue you, or worse. It's a bona fide survival technique for the modern world.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#137

Post by zerocount »

toast0 wrote: post #119
anonporridge wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the value of coins? Paper and plastic notes seems more convenient in most cases. Metal coins seem like a case of holding onto tradition despite losing the original reason for the tradition.

Detecting quarters is a lot easier, faster, and more reliable than detecting dollar bills. Card payments really want to be made online and transaction fees are brutal for small amounts anyway, so you end up with special purpose stored value cards and all of the lost change that implies. Plus, quarters are better to flip to make decisions than bills.

Yep, tails never fails!

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#138

Post by hungryforcodes »

walterbell wrote: post #99
_8j50 wrote: post #98

All noncash methods of payment have strings attached where consumers and merchants alike are subject to various controls and costs. Cash is simple, exchange something in your posession for goods and services. It cannot be used as a means of identity based regulation or to audit who is buying what from whom. I mean, bitcoin exists because of how unacceptable this is to everyone but the middlemen, bureaucrats and purse…

Yes, articles like this one can become inadvertent advertisements for the benefits of cash.

What's wrong with cash?

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#139

Post by hungryforcodes »

paxys wrote: post #5

I don't know why the article frames it as some crazy big mystery and tries to come up with different hypotheses for it throughout. The answer is clear from the very first example they start with, and explained further towards the end – the cash is circulating in the grey/black market economy and across international borders. Demand for cash is rising because this economy is growing at a similar rate to the regular on…

Or it could be kind of "propoganda" / PR from the people who are proponents of a cashless society. An assassination of cash in the media would be the logical place to start.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#140

Post by zerocount »

strken wrote: post #96
anonporridge wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not that many steps away from being a gold bug or a bitcoin hodler.

I don't think this is true. I don't know anyone who would have benefited from owning gold or bitcoin in an emergency. However, my hometown once had its only internet exchange catch on fire, and the bank had a multiple-hour queue going around the block to withdraw a maximum of (I think) $300 in cash. I've also loaned money to people whose bank accounts got flagged. For those reasons I keep a week of cash on hand, not…

I owned an ounce of gold in the past. When I needed some quick cash many of the buyers wouldn't buy it for fear of it being fake. The ones that would buy it wanted to pay less than the spot price. I've never owned it since, but silver coins were a different story. I had 1oz Canadian maple leafs that sold very quickly.
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