51–60 of 69 posts
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The student came to the Zen master and ask 'Would you like your tea with or without milk?' to which the Zen master replied 'I will take my tea with milk, without milk, and both.'
I'll get it if that's a joke... but I have to ask: is it a joke or is it real? If real, expect me to expect source material:)
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De gustibus non disputandum.
Latin gets upvotes in HN, but that's pretty much it.
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> From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water. The idea that green tea (or any other type of whole leaf tea) should be brewed with something under ~100C is a technique used by merchants to sell you bad tea. Is this "can be brewed" as in you will end up with a beverage that is drinkable, or that you think that in general green tea is fine to be brewed at 100C. The former I can understa…
Tl;dr: yes, use boiling water on very high end Chinese green tea for best results. Longer Explanation: In the Chinese tea tradition, water temperature is referred to by the size of bubbles during boiling (crab eyes = small bubbles (cooler) vs fish eyes = large bubbles (hotter)). In theory, all water at boil is 100°c, but in practice, there is often a temperature gradient within a kettle and only the gas (the bubbles)…
Plus there doesn't account for other green teas that aren't poured in accordance with Chinese tea ceremony, such as the Nepalese green I had earlier today.
I work with tea both professionally[0] and semi-professionally[1] and will clarify that: - this is for commercial tea, not specialty or "ceremony" grade tea - all of the big commodity houses, blending houses, brand buyers, etc have their own modifications on the standard, and this ISO tea prep standard is most definitely not the "standard" - From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water…
I was under the impression that this document exists to have -a- standard such that if followed before performing some sort of experiment whether directly tea related or not, you could more easily exclude preparation differences as a confounder when comparing results with people who'd also followed the document. Certainly this is how the old coworker who had a paper copy pinned up behind their desk explained it to me…
My point was that outside of the most commodity level tea sourcing, no one uses these "standards".
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Tl;dr: yes, use boiling water on very high end Chinese green tea for best results. Longer Explanation: In the Chinese tea tradition, water temperature is referred to by the size of bubbles during boiling (crab eyes = small bubbles (cooler) vs fish eyes = large bubbles (hotter)). In theory, all water at boil is 100°c, but in practice, there is often a temperature gradient within a kettle and only the gas (the bubbles)…
Okay, I'm familiar with measuring temperature by the eyes and I get your point (which essentially seems to be the same as traditional guidance i.e. don't steep the tea in boiling water. You're just accounting for the variance in temperature from boiling and pouring) but I'm not sure I follow how this means merchants are trying to sell you bad tea. Plus there doesn't account for other green teas that aren't poured in…
Yes, the general idea is to adjust your boil and pour method for the type of tea you're brewing, but that is true for all tea. Water will lose the same heat under the same conditions whether you're brewing oolong or green tea.
To summarize the points addressed here:
- High-end Chinese green tea can be brewed with "boiling water" just as oolong or black tea can; the adjustments are within the range used for other classes of tea.
- Merchants recommending cooler water for green tea do so to reduce the astringency and/or grassy flavor found in lower quality tea.
- Nepal does not have a historical tea tradition and the cultivation of Nepalese green tea is a modern development. Nepal inherited its tea habits from India whom had it imposed on them by the British who stole the seeds from China. While Nepal produces good tea on par with Darjeeling, it does not compare to the highest end Chinese green teas, which are an order of magnitude more expensive, if not more.
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I was under the impression that this document exists to have -a- standard such that if followed before performing some sort of experiment whether directly tea related or not, you could more easily exclude preparation differences as a confounder when comparing results with people who'd also followed the document. Certainly this is how the old coworker who had a paper copy pinned up behind their desk explained it to me…
You are correct; My point was that outside of the most commodity level tea sourcing, no one uses these "standards".
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Okay, I'm familiar with measuring temperature by the eyes and I get your point (which essentially seems to be the same as traditional guidance i.e. don't steep the tea in boiling water. You're just accounting for the variance in temperature from boiling and pouring) but I'm not sure I follow how this means merchants are trying to sell you bad tea. Plus there doesn't account for other green teas that aren't poured in…
That is only partially correct; Yes, the general idea is to adjust your boil and pour method for the type of tea you're brewing, but that is true for all tea. Water will lose the same heat under the same conditions whether you're brewing oolong or green tea. To summarize the points addressed here: - High-end Chinese green tea can be brewed with "boiling water" just as oolong or black tea can; the adjustments are with…
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You are correct; My point was that outside of the most commodity level tea sourcing, no one uses these "standards".
This is not used for tea sourcing. The document explicitly states its purpose as being for the preparation of tea for sensory tests. It has nothing to do with brewing tea for enjoyment.
To illustrate this:
Just as coffee has "cupping", a method of preparation used for sourcing and evaluation but which no consumer would ever use to prepare coffee for enjoyment....
Commodity tea has this ISO standard (also called cupping).
The reason that this method, over a method that results in a better tasting cup is used, is because commodity tea is selected via flaw minimization and consistency testing.
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Tea (Camellia sinensis) is not an herb, i.e. not "a plant whose stem does not become woody and persistent (as in a tree or shrub)"
I don't know where you got that definition, but it's obviously not right. It excludes mint and rosemary leaves, for example.
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You are correct; My point was that outside of the most commodity level tea sourcing, no one uses these "standards".
This is not used for tea sourcing. The document explicitly states its purpose as being for the preparation of tea for sensory tests. It has nothing to do with brewing tea for enjoyment.
I'm unsure why you presented the entire point of the conversation as if it was a gotcha, but assuming it was a genuine mistake I can only suggest that you read my comment again.