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Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

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231–240 of 282 posts

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#231
post #225

Mechanical engineer here. This article is very light on a lot of detail which would allow you to reasonably compare this material to steel, plastic or any other material. Just a few that come to mind: Hard materials are usually brittle materials that fail suddenly. How tough is it? ie. Can it accept some deformation without significant weakening and will it stretch or crack prior to failure? What is its compressive s…

I’d been interested to know your thoughts on pykrete! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#232
Article is paywalled (and sci-hub doesn't work), but the Brinell hardness of 31 while certainly higher than normal hardwoods, is extremely soft compared to metal - softer than even wrought iron without a heat treat. I'm sure it could be made "sharper" than cheap cutlery, but that doesn't mean it will hold an edge well. I'd also be curious how recyclable the material remains after the chemical treatment required to densify it - I would suspect it's like e.g. MDF / plywood which is very bad environmentally due to the glues.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#233
post #71

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Steel is amazing - and as a result we use it in all kinds of places where its properties aren't fully utilized. Aluminum has been growing into that role of "steel alternative", but there's still room for other alternatives.

We may be low on aluminum for a while.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-14/aluminum-...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#234
post #207

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

> As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product I've been using a lot of MDF lately, and it's interesting to think that it's just sawdust and glue. It makes me wonder: are there other fibers which could be used in a similar process which would yield better materials than MDF?

I think you just reinvented fiberglass and carbon fiber

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#235
post #28

Of course I cannot access the full text article, but the claim that this HW can be sharpened and become "3 times sharper" than "most commercial table knives" sounds not very scientific.

Since "table knife" means the typical dull cutlery knives (as opposed to e.g. steak or kitchen knives), I have no doubt that wood (hardened or not) can be sharpened like that.

Yeah I suspect they're comparing to cutlery knives out of the box - without any extra sharpening.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What % of engineered bamboo flooring is stuff other than bamboo (like glue)? From looking at the side when installing it, it seemed like very little.

Quite a bit actually. Bamboo cant be cut into planks, so it's typically ripped into really thin strips and then laminated.

Even then it's little enough that I haven't been able to discern the glue even after close inspection.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#237

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

How is Plywood and OSB recycled (for the municipalities that do so)? Wouldn't the different types of glue (from different manufacturers or grades) cause problems there? Or is it just used as an industrial fuel where the glue is burned off?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#238
post #132
post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

Well, the glue is a renewable resource, old livestock and milk. That's why Borden used mascot Elsie's spouse Elmer as a glue mascot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue https://americacomesalive.com/elmers-glue-the-surprising-sto...

I'd be very surprised if animal glue was used in any engineered wood. Even in fine woodworking it's a niche product; it's expensive and generally doesn't work as well as other glues.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#239
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steel is amazing - and as a result we use it in all kinds of places where its properties aren't fully utilized. Aluminum has been growing into that role of "steel alternative", but there's still room for other alternatives.

Looking back at Aluminium, it was once very costly - there was no economical way to extract it from clay by traditional metallurgy. When the Hall process of electrolytic extraction from molten salts was invented = huge price decline, and useage. Titanium is in a similar position, fairly common, but hard to extract economically. I hope there is a low cost electrolytic to recover Titanium found some day, as it is a ver…

Titanium is extremely difficult to machine, which is part of why titanium parts (like those used in airplanes) are so expensive.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#240
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A benefit of using wood is not composting it in the end. We want to pull carbon out of the air, which trees are good at, but we don't want to let it back into the air when it is done. Adding all the stuff to it increases the longevity, which is helpful. Steel doesn't pull carbon out of the air, unfortunately.

If half of the material ending up as "wood" in a building is epoxy or some other treatment, though, the efficacy of using buildings for carbon capture seems quite decreased.

Well epoxy is basically just lots of hydrogen and carbon with a few other elements - it could work quite well as a carbon sink too.

The raw materials to manufacture it are mostly hydrocarbons. Maybe we should be focusing on making "green epoxy" instead.

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