Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site • Hacker News Board

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#511

Post by eointierney » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

dreyfan wrote: post #17

The US is so completely and utterly fucked I think it's beyond redemption at this point.

Ah here, steady on.

I know it's commonplace to wail on the USA because of all the shite that seems to be getting shittier but there is _so much_ goodness in the USA.

The systems are a bit broken. The constitution needs modernization, access to and application of the laws need to be made measuably fair, and the economic model requires reformulation. Racism, sexism, and perverse idolatry need to be educated out of the standard models of discourse. But.

The USA is still a paradigm of democratic republicanism. It's still full of amazing humans, many of whom work hard to improve other people's lives. It is seething with debate, invests hugely in technology, and still reacts quickly to changes of circumstances. It's fucked, but not irredeemably so.

Mainly it needs to focus on education and healthcare, especially by removing pernicious, profit-seeking, short-term motivations.

Also, stop voting Retardicans.

To be fair, Demoticrats are a pretty shoddy bunch of disorganised and intellectually confused herd of kittens, but they at least _try_ to improve the lot of other humans. The Retardicans are big business first and all else after, with a whole heap of contempt for thought on the side.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#512

Post by zepto » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

DFHippie wrote: post #507

zepto wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting behavior is quite distinct from commenting online, or identifying with a particular side. Why are you talking about voting now? As for ‘the lesser of two evils’: > You have to decide which party is actually telling more damaging lies, taking more damaging actions, or doing more good, and act accordingly. This is you telling us we have to make that choice.

Yes, you have to make that choice. That was my point: choose better over worse. The "more damaging lies" part is just trying not to be too rosy-eyed about any particular party. Your choices are imperfect, but that's the world we live in. ETA In case it was unclear, I think political behavior aimed at your self image is vanity and thus self-defeating. Even if your chief goal is thinking better of yourself or getting o…

It’s clear what you think, it’s just not relevant to the comment you replied to.

When you vote, you are forced to make a choice between parties. Nothing forces you to identify with a side when it comes to discussing who is anti-science or not.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#513

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

jachee wrote: post #400

xapata wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call them moral values, because the values expressed are so context-dependent.

Exactly. See, for example, the separate body-autonomy stances of abortions and vaccinations.

[deleted]

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#514

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

glenstein wrote: post #508

zepto wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this question relevant? Anti-science views are anti-science regardless of the short term mortality rate you can attach to them or who is propagating them.

It's relevant because it would put some substance behind the "both sides do it" claim. People commonly make this false equivalence, but as of 2021 it's fair to observe that it's just unequivocally false with respect to the question of respect for scientific consensus. If a lot of republicans disregard science (e.g. believe incorrect things about covid) and a few democrats do it (e.g. believing incorrect things about…

[deleted]

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#515

Post by zepto » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

glenstein wrote: post #508

zepto wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this question relevant? Anti-science views are anti-science regardless of the short term mortality rate you can attach to them or who is propagating them.

It's relevant because it would put some substance behind the "both sides do it" claim. People commonly make this false equivalence, but as of 2021 it's fair to observe that it's just unequivocally false with respect to the question of respect for scientific consensus. If a lot of republicans disregard science (e.g. believe incorrect things about covid) and a few democrats do it (e.g. believing incorrect things about…

> People commonly make this false equivalence, but as of 2021 it's fair to observe that it's just unequivocally false with respect to the question of respect for scientific consensus. If a lot of republicans disregard science (e.g. believe incorrect things about covid) and a few democrats do it (e.g. believing incorrect things about nuclear safety), people take these unequal examples and proceed claim it means both sides are the same, and believe that they are expressing a sophisticated position.

I guess you’re arguing with ‘people’ then.

You might want to look into some of the other anti-science ideas strongly propagated by democrats. You don’t seem to have a good inventory. It’s not limited to minor false beliefs about nuclear safety. Consider the belief that there is no such thing as biological sex, for example.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#516

Post by codezero » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

russellbeattie wrote: post #437

abvdasker wrote: post #47

I'll risk making this a partisan issue and say the anti-intellectual and anti-science bent seems increasingly prevalent among Republicans like Mike Parson and their constituencies. One of the most shocking statistics I've seen recently is the Pew poll which shows that in the space of 2 years Republican attitudes about higher education saw a 20-point swing such that that most Republican voters now believe college is n…

I 100% believe that the true issue is religion. The Church, as an institution, is dying. In their death throes they are basically doing everything they can to turn back the clock on society to a time they played an important role in dictating how we live. Every societal problem we have today is a result of Christian, Muslim and Jewish religions preaching their versions of ignorance and intolerance, every single Satur…

Still cracks me up to know that the "mark of the beast" is just a rudimentary hash folks in the bronze age used to communicate semi-secret names, in, for example, love letters.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#517

Post by glenstein » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #515

glenstein wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relevant because it would put some substance behind the "both sides do it" claim. People commonly make this false equivalence, but as of 2021 it's fair to observe that it's just unequivocally false with respect to the question of respect for scientific consensus. If a lot of republicans disregard science (e.g. believe incorrect things about covid) and a few democrats do it (e.g. believing incorrect things about…

> People commonly make this false equivalence, but as of 2021 it's fair to observe that it's just unequivocally false with respect to the question of respect for scientific consensus. If a lot of republicans disregard science (e.g. believe incorrect things about covid) and a few democrats do it (e.g. believing incorrect things about nuclear safety), people take these unequal examples and proceed claim it means both s…

>I guess you’re arguing with ‘people’ then.

I'm specifically and directly responding to your question of why we should be in the business of judging the relative merits of different claims, and I elaborated by explaining problems with false balance.

Edit, since I can't reply: parent commenter asked "What perspectives do you see coming from the Democrat side that have the same mortality rate as vaccine refusal? "and you replied "why is this question relevant" and I explained why. So I was indeed directly responding to you, despite your continued protestations to the contrary. Insisting that I wasn't being responsive to you is bordering on ridiculous.

> Consider the belief that there is no such thing as biological sex, for example.

I'm pretty comfortable dismissing this out of hand.

Edit: and I'm not missing the point, I understand the role you believe it plays in the logical structure of equating democrats to republicans. I understand that you're invoking the subject of gender and saying it's an example of Democrats being estranged from scientific consensus in a way that's comparable to Republicans being estranged from scientific consensus on covid. And it's at this point in the conversation where I'm no longer attempting to engage with you, and I instead direct my comments to others reading this thread on understanding what false equivalences look like.

I was initially focused on failures to accurately compare differently weighted examples. But there's a different category of false equivalence, where people confidently invoke a completely non-existent scientific consensus. The invocation of gender falls into that category.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#518

Post by dane-pgp » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #317

charonn0 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're alienating people like me from being on your side. On one side are the computer scientists and engineers who understand the nature of the problem. On the other side are ignorant and/or dishonest actors out to avoid being embarrassed. It's all on you if you pick the wrong one out of loyalty to a political party.

On one side are the computer scientists and engineers who understand the nature of the problem. Which includes Republicans: https://twitter.com/tonylovasco/status/1448672694065668105 If you want to make scientific ignorance a political issue, we can discuss nuclear power, GMOs, unreasonable COVID restrictions, and plenty more.

> we can discuss nuclear power, GMOs, unreasonable COVID restrictions

If you want to discuss those things, it's worth first pointing out that the US had the worst Covid death toll of the G7 countries[0] and that red states had higher case and death rates than blue states[1].

Also, it's possible to accept the science of nuclear power and GMOs while still not trusting large corporations to exercise sufficient care and restraint when given control over nuclear material and life itself, especially when the government agencies ultimately responsible for regulating those technologies are half the time appointed by a party that doesn't believe in regulations or government.

[0] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-death-rate-worse-brita...

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/10/politics/covid-cases-deat...

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#519

Post by zepto » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:19 PM UTC

glenstein wrote: post #517

zepto wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People commonly make this false equivalence, but as of 2021 it's fair to observe that it's just unequivocally false with respect to the question of respect for scientific consensus. If a lot of republicans disregard science (e.g. believe incorrect things about covid) and a few democrats do it (e.g. believing incorrect things about nuclear safety), people take these unequal examples and proceed claim it means both s…

>I guess you’re arguing with ‘people’ then. I'm specifically and directly responding to your question of why we should be in the business of judging the relative merits of different claims, and I elaborated by explaining problems with false balance. Edit, since I can't reply: parent commenter asked "What perspectives do you see coming from the Democrat side that have the same mortality rate as vaccine refusal? "and y…

> responding to your question of why we should be in the business of judging the relative merits of different claims,

That’s not a question I asked.

> and I elaborated by explaining problems with false balance.

Which is why this elaboration isn’t relevant.

>> Consider the belief that there is no such thing as biological sex, for example.

> I'm pretty comfortable dismissing this out of hand.

You seem to be missing the point that it is a common anti-science belief promoted by democrats.

As far as I can see you are just advocating for partisanship. That’s a common position to take, and you are welcome to it.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#520

Post by danbmil99 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:22 PM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #309

danbmil99 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, voting for Republican candidates means supporting an institution that has given up on Democratic norms and is clearly aiming at an authoritarian takeover of the government of the United States. Up until about 5 years ago I would agree that being even-handed on political matters is appropriate. But when one political party has gone completely mad with lust for power and has given up on science and ratio…

If you believe Donald Trump gave up on democratic norms and was "aiming [for] an authoritarian takeover," then surely you must recognize that it was Republicans like Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell, Brad Raffensperger, Stephen Riche, and others who stopped him... right?

Yes, and the big guy has incessantly gone after each one you mention, hoping to drum them out of the party. I wonder what his motivation is...

Even now, the few who voted to impeach over Jan 6 are cowed and quiet. Mitt Romney just voted against the Manchin-approved compromise voting rights bill.

These cowards are all afraid of their shadows. It's an incredible, once-per-century show of absolute cowardice and submission to a strongman.

The US has a decent shot of going the way of Turkey, Hungary, and Venezuela. The elected GOP senators and congresspeople are 100% to blame. They are sad, sorry, craven and ineffectual people.