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BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

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Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#21

Post by nathannecro »

danans wrote: post #8
sudosysgen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…

Adding to this info - LiFePO4 batteries are far more chemically stable and therefore need no cooling system. I have LiFePO4 home backup batteries and they are completely passively cooled.

I'm in the market for home backup batteries and was wondering if you could namedrop the mfgs of your batteries if you were satisfied with them.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#22

Post by consumer451 »

Modern IP rights combined with the IP wild-west that we have allowed in China are about backfire on western industry so hard. See section 3 here:

https://roskill.com/news/batteries-the-true-drivers-behind-l...

We chose to give China a 10 year head start on LFP at scale.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#23

Post by CarVac »

cowmix wrote: post #4
infocollector wrote: post #2

Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?

Better: * can charge to 100% all the time * no rare earth minerals * stable Worse: * not as energy dense * US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery

The US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery because there is a consortium of patent-holders who charge enough to make LFP less economically viable that wasn't able to secure all the needed patents in China.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#24

Post by krasin »

nathannecro wrote: post #21
danans wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this info - LiFePO4 batteries are far more chemically stable and therefore need no cooling system. I have LiFePO4 home backup batteries and they are completely passively cooled.

I'm in the market for home backup batteries and was wondering if you could namedrop the mfgs of your batteries if you were satisfied with them.

I highly recommend Will Prowse's channel who extensively covers batteries, solar panels, invertors and other home solar stuff: https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#25

Post by Robotbeat »

CarVac wrote: post #23
cowmix wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better: * can charge to 100% all the time * no rare earth minerals * stable Worse: * not as energy dense * US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery

The US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery because there is a consortium of patent-holders who charge enough to make LFP less economically viable that wasn't able to secure all the needed patents in China.

Climate mitigation depends on patent reform, sounds like.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#26

Post by nathannecro »

krasin wrote: post #24
nathannecro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the market for home backup batteries and was wondering if you could namedrop the mfgs of your batteries if you were satisfied with them.

I highly recommend Will Prowse's channel who extensively covers batteries, solar panels, invertors and other home solar stuff: https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse

Perfect, thanks for the recommendation. Looks like I'll have quite a few videos to watch.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#27

Post by sudosysgen »

consumer451 wrote: post #22

Modern IP rights combined with the IP wild-west that we have allowed in China are about backfire on western industry so hard. See section 3 here: https://roskill.com/news/batteries-the-true-drivers-behind-l... We chose to give China a 10 year head start on LFP at scale.

FWIW Sony sued BYD for patent infringement in Japanese courts and lost. Sanyo sued BYD in US courts and settled mostly on the side of BYD. BYD also managed to invalidate a Panasonic patents.

It seems to me that China bet on LFP, the West bet on Li-ion, and China's bet is pretty successful. You'd be right to say that patents limited LFP in the West, but generally Japanese/Korean firms seemed relatively uninterested in the tech. LFP was very much under-developped until recently and there was a lot of path-dependence and a lot of bets on Li-ion outside of China.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#28

Post by caf »

anonymousiam wrote: post #17

Tesla said that they will use LFP batteries from now on in all "standard range" cars. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte... As I understand it, the "standard range" cars are no different from the long range cars, other than a software flag that allows a greater battery discharge. So this will complicate the Tesla fast battery swap stations if they ever actually build any of those. https://ww…

The standard range cars have a physically smaller battery and one fewer motor.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#29

Post by sbierwagen »

Robotbeat wrote: post #25
CarVac wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery because there is a consortium of patent-holders who charge enough to make LFP less economically viable that wasn't able to secure all the needed patents in China.

Climate mitigation depends on patent reform, sounds like.

Patents have a 20 year lifetime. US5910382 and US6514640 have already expired. It might speed up climate mitigation, but it's not strictly required for it to happen.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#30

Post by AshleyGrant »

nathannecro wrote: post #21
danans wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this info - LiFePO4 batteries are far more chemically stable and therefore need no cooling system. I have LiFePO4 home backup batteries and they are completely passively cooled.

I'm in the market for home backup batteries and was wondering if you could namedrop the mfgs of your batteries if you were satisfied with them.

You're opening a whole can of worms in trying to decide what LiFePO4 batteries to buy. There's tons of options, prices have been dropping precipitously this year across the board.

The first question to ask yourself is if you want the comfort of a high quality warranty or would you like the cheapest possible price per kWh?

In my RV, in May, I went with somewhat high-end Battleborn Batteries. They have a great warranty, which has come in handy as one of the batteries I bought experienced an issue and needed to be sent in for repair. They paid for shipping in both directions.

That being said, nowadays even just a few months later, I might decide to "self-insure" given how good the cheaper batteries have gotten.

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