BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
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Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#2Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#3Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?
BYD is also a competitor in the electric vehicle space.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Auto
(They make great KN95 masks, incidentally.)
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#4Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?
Better:
* can charge to 100% all the time
* no rare earth minerals
* stable
Worse: * not as energy dense * US doesn't make a lot of this type of battery
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#5Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?
So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap.
However, these are going to be ~4x cheaper for the same capacity, and are much safer, so some weight might be gained, but they won't take more space, possibly less space because they are prismatic.
To give you an estimate on the possible cost savings, BYD has it's own EVs, and the one they are releasing using these batteries costs 20 000$ before subsidies for 51kWh.
LiFePO4 also has much higher durability - that means that you can get away with more efficient pack designs, and probably that they can handle much faster charging.
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#6Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?
So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…
Iron based batteries also remove cobalt and nickel requirements, making them less environmental and politically difficult.
Anything to make EVs more mainstream has my interest.
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…
Iron based batteries also remove cobalt and nickel requirements, making them less environmental and politically difficult. Anything to make EVs more mainstream has my interest.
Absolutely, it's a big part of why they're cheaper.
I just wish I could actually get them for reasonable prices in smaller quantities. I have to pay a 3-5x premium for LiFePO4 batteries. I'd love some at a reasonable premium for my ebike :)
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#8Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?
So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…
Adding to this info - LiFePO4 batteries are far more chemically stable and therefore need no cooling system. I have LiFePO4 home backup batteries and they are completely passively cooled.
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#9Tidbit: Flixbus, the origins of FlixMobility which bought Greyhound tried the BYD C9 bus on the Mannheim - Frankfurt route in 2018-2019.
They stopped because of re-occurring partially multi-day outages due to battery issues, which were LiFePo. The press coverage is vague, but explicit in mentioning battery issues.
I assume that tesla did their due diligence and BYD fixed the issues by now.
Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries
#10Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?
So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…
They can get away with less safety buffer and cooling equipment and so at the pack level, they can claw some of that mass energy density back. Not all of it, but combined with other advantages, they're quite viable for EVs, and no brainer for stationary storage.